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Thread: Australian gunman goes on shooting spree

  1. #21
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Given the number of shootings the last few years, there increasing number, and the global nature of media reports about it, there is a real, non-zero, probability the excessive number of shootings in the US contributed to his decision to act out as he did. There is no way around it.

    People don't need other people doing bad things to come up with bad things to do, but other people doing bad things do tend to produce more people doing the same bad things.

    These are just simple facts DB.

    Jim
    Shooting deaths are on the decline since the 90’s.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  2. #22
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    There is a definite influence there as well. Columbine was often linked to what was portrayed in 'The Matrix".


    Jim
    I have heard it linked to video games as well. And I think that such things do influence people, especially children. Most people can separate fantasy from reality, but there is such a thing as desensitizing. If you see people getting hacked up and killed over and over in movies and TV and video games, pretty soon some people will become desensitized to the violence, and see it as normal. Then when something in their lives doesn't go right, they get fired, mistreated, or bullied, they want to fight back. And they are angry and hurt, and they turn to what they know: violence and killing, revenge. It's been normalized in their minds. And yes, seeing others do it on the news encourages them too. They want some fame on the way out.

  3. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  4. #23
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I never mentioned the name - can we have a conversation that does not go there?

    Jim
    Apologies. I meant to link it to MM's post as a joke rather than yours.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  5. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Shooting deaths are on the decline since the 90’s.
    Not deaths in mass shootings, which is the topic of the thread. My point was based on the increase in frequency and the subsequent publicity afforded mass shootings.

    That and that the stats show they are rising again, overall.

    https://www.latimes.com/science/scie...109-story.html

    The study looks at the trend for the decade from 2006 to 2016.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-06-2019 at 11:51 AM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  6. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  7. #25
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I have heard it linked to video games as well. And I think that such things do influence people, especially children. Most people can separate fantasy from reality, but there is such a thing as desensitizing. If you see people getting hacked up and killed over and over in movies and TV and video games, pretty soon some people will become desensitized to the violence, and see it as normal. Then when something in their lives doesn't go right, they get fired, mistreated, or bullied, they want to fight back. And they are angry and hurt, and they turn to what they know: violence and killing, revenge. It's been normalized in their minds. And yes, seeing others do it on the news encourages them too. They want some fame on the way out.
    I agree. One other factor I've noticed is that along with desensitization (numbing) the entertainment association with violence can create an association with exhilaration (a net positive feedback) rather than horror when witnessing or hearing of such actions. Again not in everyone, or even most people. But more than without it, which increases the probability of it having a negative influence on us as a population.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  8. Amen Sparko, Adrift amen'd this post.
  9. #26
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    I agree. One other factor I've noticed is that along with desensitization (numbing) the entertainment association with violence can create an association with exhilaration (a net positive feedback) rather than horror when witnessing or hearing of such actions. Again not in everyone, or even most people. But more than without it, which increases the probability of it having a negative influence on us as a population.

    Jim
    Especially when it is their heroes doing it in a movie.

  10. #27
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Given the number of shootings the last few years, there increasing number, and the global nature of media reports about it, there is a real, non-zero, probability the excessive number of shootings in the US contributed to his decision to act out as he did. There is no way around it.

    People don't need other people doing bad things to come up with bad things to do, but other people doing bad things do tend to produce more people doing the same bad things.

    These are just simple facts DB.

    Jim
    This is actually a phenomenon that psychologists have studied and agreed with. "Going postal" was, in a sense, memetic. Once the idea caught on with a few of these mass shootings, it got more and more popular. There's a great documentary on the topic here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ib7r68NBY8

  11. #28
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Given that fatal shootings in general have dropped dramatically in recent decades from levels experienced earlier, in spite of the media's determined effort to make it seem otherwise, perhaps we're barking up the wrong tree here.

    Attachment 37477

    Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/us/politics/las-vegas-shooting-gun-claims-fact-check.html


    A widely shared chart showing that more guns mean fewer gun murders gives a misleading impression.

    In response to calls for more gun control and fewer guns, some have pointed to a chart published by the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative-leaning think tank in Washington, to argue that more guns don’t necessarily translate to more gun homicides.

    The point that more permissive gun laws did not lead to a huge spike in gun violence has merits, said Adam Winkler, a Second Amendment expert at the University of California, Los Angeles. But the chart itself, he said, “is a bunch of hokey.”

    The chart’s data on the spike in the number of firearms and the decline in the homicides by firearms are accurate. But there is no proof that these two trends are connected. Crime, whether or not committed with guns, has generally declined over the past two decades. Experts aren’t entirely sure why but do say the drop was influenced by a host of economic, racial and demographic factors.

    “Not a single criminal justice researcher out there looks at the gun homicide rate solely as a function of the number of private firearms,” said Mr. Winkler.

    A few other statistics quickly puncture the chart’s suggested conclusion.

    The number of firearms in the United States has steadily increased over the past two decades. It rose to 310 million in 2009, up from 259 million in 2000 and 192 million in 1994.

    Gun homicides, meanwhile, fell dramatically from a 1993 peak of a rate of 7.02 per 100,000 people; by 1999, it was at 3.82 per 100,000 people. But the homicide rate has remained steady since then, suggesting the correlation between the number of guns and number of gun killings does not hold past the turn of the millennium.

    At the same time, the number of mass shootings has also spiked dramatically.

    © Copyright Original Source


  12. #29
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Gotta love the celebutards who, while starring in movies which depicts dozens of people getting mowed down by gun fire, make public statements decrying gun violence -- while being surrounded by bodyguards carrying firearms.
    How about Jim Carrey starring in a movie based on a violent comic book series and then refusing to endorse it afterwards because -- shock! horror! -- the movie was violent!
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  13. #30
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Shooting deaths are on the decline since the 90’s.
    The CDC says they're apparently on the rise again.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-dea...rs-of-decline/

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