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Thread: Another ancient of Creation myth Psalm 74:12-14

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Another ancient of Creation myth Psalm 74:12-14

    Psalm 74:12-14 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

    12 For God is my King of old,
    working salvation in the midst of the earth.
    13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength:
    thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
    14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces,
    and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-06-2019 at 06:36 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    42nd Mojave Year DesertBerean's Avatar
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    And?

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    And?
    But ... but ... Who in their right minds would expect metaphor in a poetical work?
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    But ... but ... Who in their right minds would expect metaphor in a poetical work?
    Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance?

    This is fun!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertBerean View Post
    And?
    Origin is Ugarit cuneiform:

    Source: https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium-where-did-creation-story-come-from-1.5404560


    Baal and the sea monsters

    The oldest creation myth in the Bible isn't in the Book of Genesis at all. It is alluded to in the Book of Isaiah, in the Book of Job and in Psalms.

    The clearest and fullest biblical account of this ancient myth appears in Psalm 74: “For God... Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness. Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers. The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter” (74:12-17).


    An archaeological discovery made in the 20th century shed light on this strange account of creation, revealing it for what it is: an abridged version of the Canaanite creation myth.

    Among the ruins of the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit, tablets were found in a language very similar to Hebrew, recording the many myths believed by the city’s inhabitants - including that creation began with the storm god Baal vanquishing the god of the sea Yam and his sea monster-serpent-dragon helpers.

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    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    The imagery does make a call on ANE myths. Beyond that, the psalm has nothing to do with creation stories - it is a recapitulation of the deliverance story, and an expression of confidence that God will deliver his people again.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  7. Amen mikewhitney, Chrawnus amen'd this post.
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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    The imagery does make a call on ANE myths. Beyond that, the psalm has nothing to do with creation stories - it is a recapitulation of the deliverance story, and an expression of confidence that God will deliver his people again.
    You are given a rather latter day interpretation which is different from the origins and what was actually written.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    You are given a rather latter day interpretation which is different from the origins and what was actually written.
    Hardly.

    10 O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?
    11 Why withdrawest thou thy hand, even thy right hand? pluck [it] out of thy bosom.

    12 For God [is] my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.
    13 Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.
    It doesn't take a lot of thinking to work out who the dragon and leviathan symbolises. nor which sea got divided. nor to work out that the author considers the action against dragons, and leviathan, is something the author expects to be repeated.
    14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, [and] gavest him [to be] meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
    15 Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers.

    16 The day [is] thine, the night also [is] thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.
    17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

    18 Remember this, [that] the enemy hath reproached, O LORD, and [that] the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.
    19 O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude [of the wicked]: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.

    Which part of the psalm is intended to be a creation story? Which part of drying up fountains, floods, and rivers recounts creation stories?
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    well considering that all mankind spread out from the time of the flood, it would be reasonable that various cultures retained some version of the creation story and that they would be similar to the bible.

  11. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.
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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    well considering that all mankind spread out from the time of the flood, it would be reasonable that various cultures retained some version of the creation story and that they would be similar to the bible.
    And, given such a scenario, that a couple of these garbled renditions happen to be recorded/written down previous to what is found in the Bible is irrelevant.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  13. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.

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