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Thread: Police officers nationwide flagged for racist and violent social media posts

  1. #91
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    seer never speculated about why. He's just pointing out the simple fact that blacks in America are disproportionately more likely to be perpetrators of violent crime.
    Again, if the attribute is not causally linked to the characteristic, why call it out? It turns out that black-haired people commit more crime than blonde-haired people, yet we don't see too many posts about how "black-haired people are more violent than blonde-haired people. So why single out skin color and racial identity for special treatment?

    Sparko - you asked about right-side identity politics. Here is yet another example of how the right ALSO engages in identity politics.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    There isn't anything inherent in black melanin or in black DNA that would make black people more prone to criminal behavior. Even if it could be demonstrated that there is something inherent in their DNA that would make them more prone to aggression (and I've never seen a study that suggested this) that wouldn't translate to criminality. I think one of the unstated causes that go beyond poverty is culture. I've read, for instance, that many poor Asian minority groups tend towards lower crime rates purely because those minority groups tend to be highly collectivist culturally, which means that committing crime will cause you to lose face, not only among those you know, but among your larger community.
    Right, I never suggested that skin color was the cause. I do believe it is culture and my main concern - fatherless homes. But I was responding to Shuny, and the fact that there may be more violent interaction between cops and blacks simply because these communities are generally more violent, and not because there an inherent racism with police.

    Probably negative cultural trends can be lumped under lack of education. Again, going back to Asian culture, a number of Chinese Youtube channels I follow maintain that in mainland China there is a culture of committing what most Westerners would consider impolite behavior. For instance, mainlanders will often loudly hack and clear their throat and/or spit huge gobs in the street. There are also higher incidences of urinating in the street, and if from the countryside, letting one's children defecate on the street or into street trashcans. Slowly as China becomes more modernized and (in a sense) Westernized, this behavior is being curtailed, especially when mainlanders make contact with Chinese in Hong Kong, where British cultural influence has reinforced Western ideas of polite behavior. The reason mainlanders clear their throat and spit on everything is because of old cultural views that clear sinuses/throats are linked to better health. It's an education issue.

    That said, I think it goes without saying that poverty can be, and often is the catalysis for criminal behavior. So it isn't wrong, exactly, to point out that poverty and education are largely responsible for criminal behavior.
    There are twice as many whites below the poverty line than blacks, yet blacks are much more violent. And are we suggesting that the poor can not be moral or good?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OK - I have a question. Do you believe a person is intrinsically more or less violent on the basis of the color of their skin (i.e., their racial membership)?
    No, I think it has to do with culture (a lot of it revolves around the gangster culture) and fatherless homes.
    Last edited by seer; 06-20-2019 at 06:22 AM.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Again, if the attribute is not causally linked to the characteristic, why call it out? It turns out that black-haired people commit more crime than blonde-haired people, yet we don't see too many posts about how "black-haired people are more violent than blonde-haired people. So why single out skin color and racial identity for special treatment?
    Because we were responding to Shuny's claims of Police racism and violence against blacks. We were not the ones who originally brought race it.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  6. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    OK - I have a question. Do you believe a person is intrinsically more or less violent on the basis of the color of their skin (i.e., their racial membership)?
    So why is all the emphasis on "a black man was shot by a white cop" instead of "an underprivileged man was shot by a middle income cop"? And, let's not forget "Poor Lives Matter".
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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No, I think it has to do with culture (a lot of it revolves around the gangster culture) and fatherless homes.
    Are "the gangster culture" and "fatherless homes" unique to the black race?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Because we were responding to Shuny's claims of Police racism and violence against blacks. We were not the ones who originally brought race it.
    Actually - while Shuny was the first to use the word "black" in this thread, it was in the context of "blacks and often other minorities." The thread was, of course, about racism - so someone is eventually going to talk about race. After that post, the focus appears to have gone almost exclusively to "blacks" and their violence. I am suggesting that the constant association of "black" and "violence" in our language leads to a systemic perception by many: "black people are more violent." That perception is furthered by the fact that this is exactly what people are saying. If it is never challenged, then it becomes accepted by many as true.

    On behalf of my sons, and the sea of back people out there living their lives, doing good, serving in their community, and raising their families, please consider breaking this habit, and associating violence with the things that are causally related to it - not the color of the person's skin.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Right, I never suggested that skin color was the cause. I do believe it is culture
    I figured as much. I'm just not certain that carpe knew that or understood it.

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    There are twice as many whites below the poverty line than blacks, yet blacks are much more violent. And are we suggesting that the poor can not be moral or good?
    We are suggesting that poverty often offers opportunity to commit crime, even among European whites (and other ethnicities). And that poverty can negatively effect accessibility to better education. Poverty, in of itself, does not define moral disposition, but the combination of poverty, poor education, and negative cultural trends (from both within and without) can give occasion to higher incidences of crime among population groups over and above other population groups.

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    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    So why is all the emphasis on "a black man was shot by a white cop" instead of "an underprivileged man was shot by a middle income cop"? And, let's not forget "Poor Lives Matter".
    For a number of reasons. The primary one is that the issue of racism in our police force is an important one. While racism in the general population is inevitable, there is nothing inevitable about it within the police force. An argument can be made that we only want to arm and empower people who will deal with all people equitably in that particular job. Your ability to pour steel is not impacted by being a racist. Your ability to fairly enforce laws is very likely impacted by racist and prejudiced points of view. And the evidence is significant that racism is deeply embedded in some sectors of our law enforcement and judicial system. It's not just Alabama, it's also Vermont and California. It needs to be explored, quantified, and addressed. That does not mean every cop is racist, or even most cops or even a high percentage of cops. But I believe ANY racism in an armed and legally-empowered population is not acceptable.

    As for "black lives matter," any group that experiences systematic persecution is going to (eventually) react to that persecution. If a child has been bullied in a school for years, eventually, they are going to scream, "Make this stop! I matter!" He/she is responding to the reality that he has been treated unjustly for so long. He is not saying "others don't matter." He's saying, "everyone else is being treated like they matter - I want to experience that too!" The black community has been the target of racism since the dawn of this republic. They have been enslaved. They have been Jim Crowed. The evidence of ongoing, systemic racism continues to this day, and impacts their lives. The median income for a black person is half what it is for a white person. Black people are regularly incarcerated for the exact same crimes that get white people a few years of parole. Twice as many black people are in poverty as white people. That poverty has real consequences. Poverty is linked to crime. When a black person commits a crime, the probability that they will not be able to make bail is substantially higher than for a white person. That means a black person is far more likely to spend days and weeks in jail waiting for a trial than a white person. As a result they lose jobs, compounding the problem. They are far more likely to have to depend on an overloaded public defender than a white person, so far more likely to accept "plea deals."

    Do white people experience those things? Of course they do. There is poverty among white people too. There is poverty among all races. I am not arguing that black people get special treatment. I am arguing that the system needs to be looked at so that ALL people actually DO have equal opportunity, and the deck is not systemically stacked against one race or another. Should there be more black people in jail than white? Absolutely - if they commit more crime. But that should not be true because a black person regularly gets a stiffer sentence than a white person, for the same crime.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  11. #100
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Are "the gangster culture" and "fatherless homes" unique to the black race?
    No, but they are much more prominent in black communities with 70% homes fatherless. As far as the the gangster culture you don't see these kinds of drive by shootings and gang wars in poor white neighborhoods. You did though during the 20s-30s with the Italian gangs.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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