Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Police officers nationwide flagged for racist and violent social media posts

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by myth View Post
    It's my choice only in the sense that a chose a low-paying profession with crappy hours in order to serve my community, and have to have my first amendment rights curtailed for the privilege of having that job. But I knew that when I signed up.
    Yeah - I get how the indignities pile up on one another and here you are putting life on the line for those heaping the indignities. You have my real respect and appreciation. I meant no disrespect with my comments.

    It just still seems...draconian. On a related matter (and not just related to law enforcement), I also believe that employers have too much authority to determine whether or not their employees have tattoos or facial hair. Seems like those are a form of speech, and I see little legit reason for employers to regulate them.
    Then again if the nose ring the waitress is wearing while she has a cold is all gooey* ...

    Jim


    *I never went back to that restaurant ...
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #17
      I imagine there are deep rooted socio factors involved that after awhile, even otherwise well meaning police officers end up profiling people by race. If you're a beat cop, and your daily interactions mean hitting certain parts of the city, and/or primarily dealing with minority groups, that's eventually going to shape ones thinking about those minority groups (even if you belong to said minority group). Human nature is to profile and stereotype, and it's hard to break free from those habits. Breaking officers free from that sort of negative profiling may mean getting them involved in the community in positive ways outside of law enforcement, and helping the community itself to become more involved in self-policing, not in a law enforcement sense, but in openly discouraging get-over types, and trouble-making outliers, working with law enforcement to actively shut down illegal operations, and taking pride in one's environment through broken window policing.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by myth View Post
        I haven't claimed to have such research, . . .
        Unfortunate you do not have much of an argument to present other than your opinion.

        I'm making an argument from logic.
        That's also unfortunate, because self serving logic to justify your agenda is not a coherent argument.

        Since you seem to disagree, how about you explain why you think police officers are prone to racism and violence at a higher rate than the general population? Because that seems to me to be a very illogical assumption built on your own bias.
        There is a long long history of racism and violence against blacks and often other minorities. in law enforcement going back to over 100 years. We can start by reviewing the evidence particularly in the South and the larger cities, but the problem is nation wide.

        The fact that law enforcement admin is taking disciplinary action doesn't mean anything at all. Big city admin frequently discipline officers based on whichever direction the political wind is blowing. For example, suddenly at my agency, people are getting wrote up for using foul language. The entire Department uses foul language to one degree or another, and so do 99% of our 'clients', but the new chief doesn't much like it. So excuse me for not holding my breath over the significance of officers being disciplined.
        Your evading the facts of the case at hand, and obfuscating meaningless self-serving logic and nothing more.
        Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-09-2019, 06:05 PM.
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          I imagine there are deep rooted socio factors involved that after awhile, even otherwise well meaning police officers end up profiling people by race. If you're a beat cop, and your daily interactions mean hitting certain parts of the city, and/or primarily dealing with minority groups, that's eventually going to shape ones thinking about those minority groups (even if you belong to said minority group). Human nature is to profile and stereotype, and it's hard to break free from those habits. Breaking officers free from that sort of negative profiling may mean getting them involved in the community in positive ways outside of law enforcement, and helping the community itself to become more involved in self-policing, not in a law enforcement sense, but in openly discouraging get-over types, and trouble-making outliers, working with law enforcement to actively shut down illegal operations, and taking pride in one's environment through broken window policing.
          I valiantly opposed the ridiculous notion that I was prejudiced when I was a police officer long ago. Until the night I responded to a call of domestic violence where a large black man was brutally raping a young white girl, and I absolutely totally lost it. It ended up being the trigger for a research paper on 'institutional racism' I wrote for one of my college courses. It was probably one of the biggest "wake up calls" I've ever experienced. In that paper, I documented quite a number of cases where I arrested somebody who subsequently claimed "the only reason you arrested me is cause I'm black!" I remember responding to one such subject with "yeah, you're right, it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that your car is backed up to a large smashed out window of an electronics store, and your trunk is filled with televisions and appliances".
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by myth View Post
            I haven't argued against that. I simply expressed a lack of surprise about it, and the OP seems to disagree with me. I haven't made any arguments about how officer's social media post impact the image of their agency and affect the relationship with the community.

            But since we're talking about it, it rather annoys me that my freedom of speech is severely curtailed because of my profession. I can't really talk about political issues on social media, or even publicly vent about my employer because of the perception of the public. And the Supreme Court has ruled that this reduction of 1st Amendment rights is constitutional, which is a load of crap. If I were in another profession, I would have a much higher degree to freedom to express myself publicly.

            That said, I understand the reasoning behind it and generally comply because I prefer to remain employed.
            It's not just police either. It's anyone. People should have the right to express their personal opinions on their own private time without being judged on them by their employer. But that is just wishful thinking nowadays. I have my social media locked down tight, and don't make any public posts on platforms such as facebook. Not that I am posting anything controversial, other that being a conservative Christian, but today, even that is enough to get you fired. Just expressing that you think marriage is between a man and a woman can get you called a racist or a bigot.

            Police officers like to blow off steam just like anyone else. They will make posts about stupid criminals, etc. But today, that can get you dinged as "insensitive"

            I advise everyone to keep their social media accounts set to only friends, and make no posts set to public.

            and privacy is also the reason why we don't ask for anyone's real name here on Tweb, and we have a rule against revealing any personal information about anyone without their permission.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              It's not just police either. It's anyone. People should have the right to express their personal opinions on their own private time without being judged on them by their employer. But that is just wishful thinking nowadays. I have my social media locked down tight, and don't make any public posts on platforms such as facebook. Not that I am posting anything controversial, other that being a conservative Christian, but today, even that is enough to get you fired. Just expressing that you think marriage is between a man and a woman can get you called a racist or a bigot.

              Police officers like to blow off steam just like anyone else. They will make posts about stupid criminals, etc. But today, that can get you dinged as "insensitive"

              I advise everyone to keep their social media accounts set to only friends, and make no posts set to public.

              and privacy is also the reason why we don't ask for anyone's real name here on Tweb, and we have a rule against revealing any personal information about anyone without their permission.

              Facebook is not a private place for personal private conversations. It is not a place for anonymous communications unless one greatly limits access.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Facebook is not a private place for personal private conversations. It is not a place for anonymous communications unless one greatly limits access.
                Perhaps you missed the part where Sparko said...

                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                I advise everyone to keep their social media accounts set to only friends, and make no posts set to public.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Perhaps you missed the part where Sparko said...
                  Did not miss it, but his advise does not negate his other statements in the post such as:

                  Originally posted by Sparko
                  It's not just police either. It's anyone. People should have the right to express their personal opinions on their own private time without being judged on them by their employer.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    Did not miss it, but his advise does not negate his other statements in the post such as:
                    I have missed your interpretative 'skills'.
                    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      Unfortunate you do not have much of an argument to present other than your opinion.



                      That's also unfortunate, because self serving logic to justify your agenda is not a coherent argument.



                      There is a long long history of racism and violence against blacks and often other minorities. in law enforcement going back to over 100 years. We can start by reviewing the evidence particularly in the South and the larger cities, but the problem is nation wide.



                      Your evading the facts of the case at hand, and obfuscating meaningless self-serving logic and nothing more.
                      You still haven't explained why you think the police are racists at a higher rate than the general population. The fact that there's a history of police racism doesn't mean anything in this argument, because there's also a history of people who aren't the police being racists. I'm merely stating that I imagine the police are racists at about the same rate as the general population -- certainly no more, and possibly less so.

                      After all, in large part the police are screened (think background investigations, criminal history checks, drug tests, multi-stage interview processes, psychological evaluations, polygraphs, etc.) pretty thoroughly . Even if you think the police are generally racist, you'd probably concede that most agencies are not AT ALL interested in the PR nightmare that results from their staff making racist statements in a public forum...and try to guard against that.

                      You're the one that hasn't made a coherent argument. I'm not sure why a random news article is anything other than anecdotal evidence at best, and you haven't offered anything else. I'm asking you to offer a logical argument about why the police are more racist than the general population as whole, since that's what you seem to be saying. Explain the logic behind your thinking, that's all.
                      "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        I imagine there are deep rooted socio factors involved that after awhile, even otherwise well meaning police officers end up profiling people by race. If you're a beat cop, and your daily interactions mean hitting certain parts of the city, and/or primarily dealing with minority groups, that's eventually going to shape ones thinking about those minority groups (even if you belong to said minority group). Human nature is to profile and stereotype, and it's hard to break free from those habits. Breaking officers free from that sort of negative profiling may mean getting them involved in the community in positive ways outside of law enforcement, and helping the community itself to become more involved in self-policing, not in a law enforcement sense, but in openly discouraging get-over types, and trouble-making outliers, working with law enforcement to actively shut down illegal operations, and taking pride in one's environment through broken window policing.
                        I see what you're saying. I think what that means, though, is that it creates the appearance of police racism. The Left has trouble understanding that a lot of minority populations receive police attention because of criminal activity caused by those socio-economic factors. It's easy to say that the population is being targeted for example, because they're black. But that's ignoring the criminal activity in the first place.

                        I don't deny that racism exists and is sometimes a factor in police action. I just don't think its anywhere nearly as pervasive as the liberal Left thinks it is. I'm a small-town cop in the Deep South, and it's difficult to see racism at play (from INSIDE the beast, as it is). You know where I observe the most frequent racists comments? In trailer parks and in the 'hood'. White trash rednecks using the N-word, and black people in the hood complaining about 'crackers'. Or the black guy I know of that shot up the house of his new white neighbors because he didn't want white people living in his predominately black neighborhood (but hey, he got state level probation for committing a federal hate crime because...well, it's not politically possible to be both black and a racist). Racism seems to proliferate among poor and uneducated people of all colors, as far as I can tell.

                        Edit: Thought I'd add a fun story. I was dealing with a bunch of drunks in the trailer park one time, and this one super drunk white guy was causing some serious problems. He misheard something I said and started yelling at me for being a racist. The only black guy present was a guy I've arrested multiple times for beating his girlfriend up. I've been in foot chases and fights with him, and arrested him for breaking into houses and cars. He promptly yelled at the drunk white dude "Hey man, Officer [myth] isn't a racist. You shut your [curse word here] mouth." Anyways, I thought it was hilarious. I figured the guy probably hated my guts, but apparently he thought I'd always been fair with him.
                        Last edited by myth; 06-15-2019, 10:47 AM.
                        "If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by myth View Post
                          You still haven't explained why you think the police are racists at a higher rate than the general population.
                          Actually I did not say that, but than again racism is terribly endemic in the general population, which makes it worse.

                          The fact that there's a history of police racism doesn't mean anything in this argument, . . .
                          Yes it does, and evidence of the history is well documented and extensive, and continues today

                          . . . because there's also a history of people who aren't the police being racists. I'm merely stating that I imagine the police are racists at about the same rate as the general population -- certainly no more, and possibly less so.
                          This is true, and it makes the issue worse.

                          After all, in large part the police are screened (think background investigations, criminal history checks, drug tests, multi-stage interview processes, psychological evaluations, polygraphs, etc.) pretty thoroughly . Even if you think the police are generally racist, you'd probably concede that most agencies are not AT ALL interested in the PR nightmare that results from their staff making racist statements in a public forum...and try to guard against that.
                          This should make the police stand to higher standard concerning racism, but it apparently does not.

                          You're the one that hasn't made a coherent argument. I'm not sure why a random news article is anything other than anecdotal evidence at best, and you haven't offered anything else. I'm asking you to offer a logical argument about why the police are more racist than the general population as whole, since that's what you seem to be saying. Explain the logic behind your thinking, that's all.
                          The coherent argument exists in the fact of the historical racism in history of law enforcement and the judicial system. The racism in the general public may or may not be greater than law enforcement and the judicial system, but history is a witness the problem of racism in the law enforcement and the judicial system is egregious.

                          The bottomline is the standards should be greater in the law enforcement and the judicial system.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by myth View Post
                            I see what you're saying. I think what that means, though, is that it creates the appearance of police racism. The Left has trouble understanding that a lot of minority populations receive police attention because of criminal activity caused by those socio-economic factors. It's easy to say that the population is being targeted for example, because they're black. But that's ignoring the criminal activity in the first place.
                            Exactly, I have linked the stats time and time again.
                            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Exactly, I have linked the stats time and time again.
                              Your selective use of stats shows your bias.

                              Racial profiling and police violence against blacks even in contemporary world is well documented.

                              Source: https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/13/17938186/police-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities



                              There are huge racial disparities in how US police use force

                              By German Lopez@germanrlopezgerman.lopez@vox.com Updated Nov 14, 2018, 4:12pm EST
                              SHARE
                              Part of Police shootings and brutality in the US: 9 things you should know
                              Black people are much more likely to be shot by police than their white peers.

                              An analysis of the available FBI data by Dara Lind for Vox found that US police kill black people at disproportionate rates: Black people accounted for 31 percent of police killing victims in 2012, even though they made up just 13 percent of the US population. Although the data is incomplete because it’s based on voluntary reports from police agencies around the country, it highlights the vast disparities in how police use force.

                              Police killings by race.
                              Alvin Chang/Vox
                              The disparities appear to be even starker for unarmed suspects, according to an analysis of 2015 police killings by the Guardian. Racial minorities made up about 37.4 percent of the general population in the US and 46.6 percent of armed and unarmed victims, but they made up 62.7 percent of unarmed people killed by police.

                              © Copyright Original Source

                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                                I have missed your interpretative 'skills'.
                                No interpretation necessary. the statements were in plain English and specific without interpretation.

                                Your problem is you 'miss the mark.'
                                Last edited by shunyadragon; 06-16-2019, 09:09 AM.
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                104 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                301 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X