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Thread: Reproductive Rights --- Protect - Defend - Extend

  1. #11
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Abortion will always be needed, so long as there are men who rape, so long as contraception remains imperfect, so long as 11-year-old girls can become pregnant,
    So why aren't you abortionists only asking for legal abortions in the case of rape? Or in the case where the mother's health was in danger?

    Contraceptives are 99% effective if used as directed.

    so if those were the only times an abortion was needed, there would only be a handful of abortions per year. Not millions.

  2. #12
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    So why aren't you abortionists only asking for legal abortions in the case of rape?
    So why aren't you anti-abortionists allowing legal abortions in the case of rape? In Alabama — lawmakers have even banned abortion for rape victims AND rapists’ parental rights are protected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.8caa4bc2f8a6

    Or in the case where the mother's health was in danger?
    The mother's health will certainly be in danger with a return of coat-hanger DIY abortions.

    Contraceptives are 99% effective if used as directed.
    So why closed Planned Parenthood if you want to ensure that contraception instructions are properly understood.

    so if those were the only times an abortion was needed, there would only be a handful of abortions per year. Not millions.
    This is the woman's decision, not ours. In fact the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester before the fetus is viable.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  3. #13
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    So why aren't you anti-abortionists allowing legal abortions in the case of rape? In Alabama — lawmakers have even banned abortion for rape victims AND rapists’ parental rights are protected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.8caa4bc2f8a6



    The mother's health will certainly be in danger with a return of coat-hanger DIY abortions.



    So why closed Planned Parenthood if you want to ensure that contraception instructions are properly understood.



    This is the woman's decision, not ours. In fact the vast majority of abortions occur in the first trimester before the fetus is viable.
    You didn't answer my question.

    If abortion is only needed in the case of rape or health why aren't you abortionists only asking for legal abortions in the case of rape? Or in the case where the mother's health was in danger?

    Contraceptives are 99% effective if used as directed.

    so if those were the only times an abortion was needed, there would only be a handful of abortions per year. Not millions.

    Hmm?

  4. #14
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    If abortion is only needed in the case of rape or health why aren't you abortionists only asking for legal abortions in the case of rape? Or in the case where the mother's health was in danger?
    Certainly, in those instances. So, why aren't you anti-abortionists allowing legal abortions in the case of rape? In Alabama — lawmakers have even banned abortion for rape victims AND rapists’ parental rights are protected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.85b1ad37908e

    But abortion is also acceptable before fetal viability if the woman so chooses. This is when the vast majority of abortions occur. So, no problem.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  5. #15
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassmoron View Post
    In Alabama — lawmakers have even banned abortion for rape victims AND rapists’ parental rights are protected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.85b1ad37908e
    The highlighted portion is incorrect as you seem to imply that a rapist's parental rights are being explicitly protected by the law, but according to your source, that's not true:

    "Last month, Alabama lawmakers considered a bill that addressed ending parental rights in cases of rape that result in conception, but the legislature removed that language, limiting the law to cases in which people sexually assault their children. State Sen. Vivian Figures (D) and other lawmakers believed the language that was removed could have excluded boys who were assaulted, because they cannot get pregnant. Figures said she didn’t know Alabama lacked a statute preventing rapists from gaining custody of their offspring but told The Washington Post that she now plans to introduce a bill in the next legislative session."
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Certainly, in those instances. So, why aren't you anti-abortionists allowing legal abortions in the case of rape? In Alabama — lawmakers have even banned abortion for rape victims AND rapists’ parental rights are protected.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.85b1ad37908e

    But abortion is also acceptable before fetal viability if the woman so chooses. This is when the vast majority of abortions occur. So, no problem.
    We actually do allow abortion if not having one would kill the mother. That would prevent two deaths. But in the case of rape, it isn't the child's fault. If you dad robbed a bank, should we toss you in jail for it?

    But my point was you pro abortionists like to use "rape" as an excuse for "needing" abortions, when rape is less than 1/2 of 1% of all abortions. .05% - And the overwhelming reason for abortions is convenience.

    abortion stats.jpg
    https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

  7. #17
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    We actually do allow abortion if not having one would kill the mother. That would prevent two deaths. But in the case of rape, it isn't the child's fault. If you dad robbed a bank, should we toss you in jail for it?
    In our society, when there has been a rape, it is strongly advised that the female be subject to a "rape kit" at the hospital or clinic following the assault. Besides the obvious medical care for the victim, there is also evidence collection and forensic exam, and even counseling followup advice.

    I'm totally ignorant on this aspect, so I'm just asking -- has there been discussion about pregnancy intervention at that point? Has there been any study as to the acceptability of that type of intervention?
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  8. #18
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    In our society, when there has been a rape, it is strongly advised that the female be subject to a "rape kit" at the hospital or clinic following the assault. Besides the obvious medical care for the victim, there is also evidence collection and forensic exam, and even counseling followup advice.

    I'm totally ignorant on this aspect, so I'm just asking -- has there been discussion about pregnancy intervention at that point? Has there been any study as to the acceptability of that type of intervention?
    You mean like the "morning after pill?"

    I don't know, but I suspect they might offer that. It would still be abortion in my opinion.

  9. #19
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You mean like the "morning after pill?"

    I don't know, but I suspect they might offer that. It would still be abortion in my opinion.
    And I'm certainly not advocating it - I'm just wondering if any of the pro-life side has.... In all my dealings with our local pregnancy center, I don't think that's ever come up. I think I'll ask.
    --- this space intentionally left blank ---

  10. #20
    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    You didn't answer my question.

    If abortion is only needed in the case of rape or health why aren't you abortionists only asking for legal abortions in the case of rape? Or in the case where the mother's health was in danger?

    Contraceptives are 99% effective if used as directed.

    so if those were the only times an abortion was needed, there would only be a handful of abortions per year. Not millions.

    Hmm?
    Many of those who advocate for abortion to be legal do ask for it to be legal only under limited circumstances - usually some combination of rape, foetal viability, health risks, early term, incest.

    Many of those who advocate for abortion to be illegal have similar lists of exceptions.

    Those who characterise the opposite point of view as being that abortions should always or never be allowed are arguing against the extremes, not the majority. Possibly because such arguments are much easier than thinking. Those same people often ignore their own exceptions too. Since their arguments will never convince the extremists and don't even apply to the non-extremists,* all they are doing is fuelling the ire and driving the gap wider. Nothing will ever be achieved by that.

    When people stop railing against phantoms and take the time to actually examine the views of those they oppose, the differences usually come down to questions like:
    - is incest a legitimate exception?
    - what qualifies as foetal viability?
    - what do you do about the 1-3% of cases where contraceptives weren't effective?
    - is the mental health of the mother relevant?
    Discussions arising from questions like those can actually change peoples views. Mischaracterisation can't.



    *some-one recently posted testimony about the procedure for aborting a 22-week-old foetus in response to some-one talking about the first trimester.
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