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Thread: Designer enzymes

  1. #101
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, why so?
    For one thing you didn't provide any actual calculations, just spouted off an "it's too improbable!" number, then tried to bluff your way out of it.

    Jesus doesn't like liars Lee.

  2. #102
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, why so?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    First, you do not show your calculations. Second, like those ENRON bookkeepers at Discovery Institute with the same agenda as yours, and you are calculating the probability based on the whole sequence of cause and effect events as if the whole process is random without consideration of other factors that control the sequence of the events. Third, this problem has been addressed in detail in previous threads with references that probability ONLY applies to individual cause and effect outcomes. By definition randomness ONLY applies to the timing of individual events.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  3. #103
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    This reference proposes a ribozyme as part of the answer, with 97 nucleotides, which has a probability of 1 in 2.5 x 1058 of forming randomly. If multiple ribozymes are needed, say three, that's about 1 in 1.5 x 10175. To put this in perspective, there are about 1080 atoms in the universe.
    So 2.5 x 1058 is 497. And 1.5 x 10175 is (497)3, 4 being the number of nucleotides.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  4. #104
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    So 2.5 x 1058 is 497. And 1.5 x 10175 is (497)3, 4 being the number of nucleotides.
    More stupid squid ink from Lee. You forgot the evidence the ribozyme could only form by having all the constituent nucleotides fall together all at once randomly. Something that no one in science says or thinks happened.

    You've only been corrected on this blunder about a dozen times Dory.

  5. #105
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Second, like those ENRON bookkeepers at Discovery Institute with the same agenda as yours, and you are calculating the probability based on the whole sequence of cause and effect events as if the whole process is random without consideration of other factors that control the sequence of the events.
    So what factors have I missed?

    Third, this problem has been addressed in detail in previous threads with references that probability ONLY applies to individual cause and effect outcomes. By definition randomness ONLY applies to the timing of individual events.
    Yet we can speak of the probability of car accidents, insurance companies do that.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  6. #106
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    So what factors have I missed?
    Intellectual honesty is a big one you've been missing for years Dory.

    Where are the effects of feedback from natural selection accounted for in your "calculations"?

  7. Amen shunyadragon, Roy amen'd this post.
  8. #107
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=lee_merrill;650216]So what factors have I missed?

    The Laws of Nature reflected in the laws of chemistry, natural selection in the limited constraints of the environment concerning the outcome of the chain of cause and effect outcomes of mutations..


    Yet we can speak of the probability of car accidents, insurance companies do that.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Great examples of the proper use probability and statistics to predict the probability of single events in time!

    Like in the research in science they are doing research to determine the factors of 'cause and effect of accidents. They also take into consideration those factors, which they cannot account for in the research and estimate the randomness of unknown sources of variation in their research.

    As HMS Beagle asked

    Quote Originally Posted by HMS Beagle
    Where are the effects of feedback from natural selection accounted for in your "calculations"?
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-16-2019 at 05:57 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #108
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    So what factors have I missed?
    The Laws of Nature reflected in the laws of chemistry, natural selection in the limited constraints of the environment concerning the outcome of the chain of cause and effect outcomes of mutations..
    What laws of chemistry do you mean, and how is natural selection and mutation involved? What is the basis of any competition for survival?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. #109
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    What laws of chemistry do you mean, and how is natural selection and mutation involved? What is the basis of any competition for survival?
    Here comes the usual Dory Defense: pretend the processes of evolution haven't been explained to him several dozen times before.

  11. #110
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    What laws of chemistry do you mean, and how is natural selection and mutation involved? What is the basis of any competition for survival?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The laws of chemistry will only allow certain reactions and combination to take place in the genetic processes involving evolution. The basis for competition for survival is the relationship between the environment and the population. The mutations that take place are are random in timing within the limited range allowed by the laws of chemistry, and consequences of each mutation and the chain of mutations is limited by the laws of chemistry.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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