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Thread: Designer enzymes

  1. #111
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    What laws of chemistry do you mean, and how is natural selection and mutation involved? What is the basis of any competition for survival?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    What is your qualification in Chemistry and Organic Chemistry that you would even understand the organic chemistry of Genetics? I took several courses at least and learned that there are limited possibilities in how chemical reactions can take place in all of nature, and the consequences of each mutation and the chain of cause and effect outcomes of mutations is also limited.

    To add the consequences of each mutation are limited by non-random factors, and the physiology of the population the mutations take place. Life is opportunistic in adapting as populations to the mutations that take place, and the genetic drift that results.

    If your view is true than micro-evolution cannot take place prevented by the randomness of the process of evolution.
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-17-2019 at 11:51 AM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #112
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    What is your qualification in Chemistry and Organic Chemistry that you would even understand the organic chemistry of Genetics?
    Well, I'll do my best.

    ... there are limited possibilities in how chemical reactions can take place in all of nature, and the consequences of each mutation and the chain of cause and effect outcomes of mutations is also limited.

    To add the consequences of each mutation are limited by non-random factors, and the physiology of the population the mutations take place. Life is opportunistic in adapting as populations to the mutations that take place, and the genetic drift that results.
    But I'm asking for which laws of chemistry apply to my specific example, and how does a population of 3 ribozymes evolve? You are just making general statements here.

    If your view is true than micro-evolution cannot take place prevented by the randomness of the process of evolution.
    Are you saying that I am saying that the randomness of evolution prevents micro-evolution from taking place? That is not my view.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. #113
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, I'll do my best.
    Not good enough if you are going ask questions about chemistry, and not have a foundation in the science. It is basis of evolution and genetics..

    But I'm asking for which laws of chemistry apply to my specific example, and how does a population of 3 ribozymes evolve? You are just making general statements here.
    You are failing to make sense with me and The Lurch and not responding to in particular with his posts because of your lack of knowledge in science. Your failure to respond to The Lurch is the worst.

    I cannot resolve your ignorance of chemistry without you understanding the basics. I can say this; the bonding angles of proteins and enzymes limit the resulting architecture of RNA and DNA, and the effects and results of mutations. The mutations themselves are random in timing and type, but the effects and results of the mutations are limited by the chemistry and physiology, which are not random.


    Are you saying that I am saying that the randomness of evolution prevents micro-evolution from taking place? That is not my view.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    If randomness prevents macro evolution it prevents micro evolution, and you cannot have it both ways. The only difference between micro and macro evolution id time.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  4. #114
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post

    As HMS Beagle asked

    Where are the effects of feedback from natural selection accounted for in your "calculations"?
    Anyone surprised Lee dodged this question and refuses to even mention the huge problem with his "calculations"?

  5. #115
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Your failure to respond to The Lurch is the worst.
    But I have responded to his posts.

    I cannot resolve your ignorance of chemistry without you understanding the basics. I can say this; the bonding angles of proteins and enzymes limit the resulting architecture of RNA and DNA, and the effects and results of mutations. The mutations themselves are random in timing and type, but the effects and results of the mutations are limited by the chemistry and physiology, which are not random.
    Well fine, but I'm still not hearing how you would adjust my calculation.

    If randomness prevents macro evolution it prevents micro evolution, and you cannot have it both ways.
    But I do not say that randomness prevents evolution.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  6. #116
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    Anyone surprised Lee dodged this question and refuses to even mention the huge problem with his "calculations"?
    I did address it, with my question as to how evolution applies to my calculation.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  7. #117
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    I did address it, with my question as to how evolution applies to my calculation.
    No you didn't address the question. You spouted some meaningless gibberish and ran like you always do. Dory.

  8. #118
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But I have responded to his posts.
    Not according The Lurch.


    Well fine, but I'm still not hearing how you would adjust my calculation.

    The calculations do not take into consideration the determining factors outside the randomness of the single events of mutation. Your problem is no different from the estimates you mimic by those of the Discovery institute. I addressed this in detail in a previous thread with references and you ignored it. Why should you do anything different this time?


    But I do not say that randomness prevents evolution.
    You are arguing that the probability based on your claim makes evolution 'so highly improbable.' If so if micro and macro are equally so highly improbable, because the only difference between the two is time.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  9. #119
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
    No you didn't address the question. You spouted some meaningless gibberish and ran like you always do. Dory.
    No, I asked some questions which have not yet been answered. To put a point on it, natural selection is not involved until there is replication with competition.

    So to reiterate, how are natural selection and competition involved in the creation of ribozymes?

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. #120
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, I asked some questions which have not yet been answered. To put a point on it, natural selection is not involved until there is replication with competition.
    So what?!?!?! ONLY the mutations themselves are individually random. Not the processes of evolution which are not random. Natural selection then acts on the genetic variation created by the mutations with competition and natural selection. Replication is constantly taking place the whole time.

    I brought up the thread where we discussed this before here, so that I can refer to it: http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...the-same-again

    This thread addressed directly the problem with the calculation of p-values by ID proponents like you.

    The bottomline is taking into the natural determining factors that constrain the influence of the randomness of the occurence of each mutation event greatly increases the probability of the processes of evolution. .
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-18-2019 at 02:02 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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