Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

And can you still support him?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    'Mind reading pills'. Seriously? You mean to tell me that the delusion has gotten so strong that when we react to what Trump actually says we are to be accused of 'mind reading'? As in, we can't possibly know what he meant by what he said, so any attempt to call him on what he said is 'mind reading'?

    That is really, really sad Pix.


    Jim
    Out of context soundbites are just that. Out of context, what was said before and after? Do you have that part of the video?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
      LPOT He asked a valid question. What does Trump's quote I would listen mean?
      We’ve seen this song and dance before.

      1. Media edits a video or recording to make a certain impression.
      2. Entire video comes out exposing the deception.
      3. Media doesn’t admit they lied.
      4. Repeat.

      As max said, show the context than we can judge.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

      Comment


      • #48
        Here is the clip. A media person asked if he would take the information.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLIrtzHoWoA
        Feel free to take this how you like.
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

        Comment


        • #49
          If you prefer, fox news covered it.
          https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...-opponents-fbi
          A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
          George Bernard Shaw

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
            Actually Donald Trump said in his campaign that he could shoot someone in broad daylight and people would still support him. And I'm now inclined to believe that is true. Especially given the issues that are happening now that those who blindly support him willingly excuse.
            I think the continued support is less about Trump himself and more about increasingly fractured US political system where it seems candidates and parties seem to gather their support mostly by not being the other major party rather than necessarily having that much to offer themselves.

            Maybe something like the American Solidarity Party can manage to provide an actual third alternative if they can muster up some more attention. If this is accurate, there's certainly considerable support for their platform (which to overly simplify, is fiscally liberal, socially conservative).

            I've never been a Trump supporter, though; I've strongly supported some specific things he's done, but not Trump himself.

            Comment


            • #51
              Ok, I've found a clip of the relevant part of the interview about the FBI and offers of information.

              Oxmixmudd, you made 2 claims (in your post #14)

              (1) that Trump asked for foreign help (from the Russians) getting information on political opponents ; and
              (2) that Trump promised not to contact the FBI if they (Russians / foreigners) do contact him.


              I've listened carefully to the questions Trump was asked, and to his responses, and I am confident that in that interview specifically he says nothing of the kind in either case. I think both your claims here are factually wrong, and you should withdraw them, since he didn't ask for foreign help, nor did he promise not to contact the FBI if foreigners gave him information on opponents.

              Which is not to say that what he did say was OK. But it is to say the he is clearly not guilty in that interview of the two specific things you claimed he was.



              I don't have time right now to summarise or transcribe the conversation - but it's your claim, so feel free to do so if you can show that he did do either of the things you claimed.
              ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

              Comment


              • #52
                Duh - the clip is from the ABC YouTube channel, here.
                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                Comment


                • #53
                  00000000000000ab000-00abb.jpg

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Rush Limbaugh
                    So Donald Trump says, “Yeah, if some foreign bad guys call me with dirt on Crooked Hillary, sure, I think about taking it.” Except the Mueller report is filled with evidence that the Russians tried to offer Trump dirt and he didn’t take it! That’s what the Mueller report conclusion is, that the Russians made numerous attempts to infiltrate the Trump campaign, that they made numerous attempts to pass off dirty information on Crooked Hillary, and the Trump campaign didn’t take it.

                    So here’s Trump with Stephanopoulos, “Yeah, if the bad guys call, sure, I’d think about taking it.” Meanwhile, [the Democrats] took it! Not only did they take it, they solicited it! And they paid for it! They went out there, the Hillary Clinton campaign, the DNC, they paid Christopher Steele, they paid Fusion GPS, they paid $6 million for this, for opposition research.

                    It was dirt. It was lies. It was made up from foreign agents in different countries. From the U.K., from the Soviet — well, Russia, and then Ukraine and who knows wherever else that Steele went trying to concoct information.

                    ...

                    So Trump is forcing all these people to go public here with their outrage over just thinking about doing it, saying it’s illegal, it’s unpresidential, it’s un-American, and the day is gonna come where everybody’s gonna know that the Democrats did it, that Hillary Clinton did it. And it’s gonna be very difficult for these clowns [having] conniption fits today to walk it all back, once Barr and Durham make their findings clear.

                    That’s why I think part of this is a set — Trump is not stupid. Don’t care what anybody thinks, he’s not stupid. And Stephanopoulos did not sandbag him. Stephanopoulos did not set him up, did not catch him in a moment of when his guard was down, or he was not prepared.

                    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2...t-know-it-yet/
                    Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-14-2019, 09:38 AM.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        Ok, I've found a clip of the relevant part of the interview about the FBI and offers of information.

                        Oxmixmudd, you made 2 claims (in your post #14)

                        (1) that Trump asked for foreign help (from the Russians) getting information on political opponents ; and
                        (2) that Trump promised not to contact the FBI if they (Russians / foreigners) do contact him.


                        I've listened carefully to the questions Trump was asked, and to his responses, and I am confident that in that interview specifically he says nothing of the kind in either case. I think both your claims here are factually wrong, and you should withdraw them, since he didn't ask for foreign help, nor did he promise not to contact the FBI if foreigners gave him information on opponents.

                        Which is not to say that what he did say was OK. But it is to say the he is clearly not guilty in that interview of the two specific things you claimed he was.



                        I don't have time right now to summarise or transcribe the conversation - but it's your claim, so feel free to do so if you can show that he did do either of the things you claimed.
                        Implication. I would listen to a foreign agent with dirt on my opponent is telling foreign nations he is open to help. OTOH, clearly and emphaticly saying no he would not is sending a clear message such sctivity would not be accepted.

                        You are far to naive.

                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                          Ok, I've found a clip of the relevant part of the interview about the FBI and offers of information.

                          Oxmixmudd, you made 2 claims (in your post #14)

                          (1) that Trump asked for foreign help (from the Russians) getting information on political opponents ; and
                          (2) that Trump promised not to contact the FBI if they (Russians / foreigners) do contact him.


                          I've listened carefully to the questions Trump was asked, and to his responses, and I am confident that in that interview specifically he says nothing of the kind in either case. I think both your claims here are factually wrong, and you should withdraw them, since he didn't ask for foreign help, nor did he promise not to contact the FBI if foreigners gave him information on opponents.

                          Which is not to say that what he did say was OK. But it is to say the he is clearly not guilty in that interview of the two specific things you claimed he was.



                          I don't have time right now to summarise or transcribe the conversation - but it's your claim, so feel free to do so if you can show that he did do either of the things you claimed.
                          Implication. I would listen to a foreign agent with dirt on my opponent is telling foreign nations he is open to help. OTOH, clearly and emphaticly saying no he would not is sending a clear message such activity would not be accepted.

                          You are being naive.

                          Jim
                          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-14-2019, 04:27 PM.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Implication. I would listen to a foreign agent with dirt on my opponent is telling foreign nations he is open to help. OTOH, clearly and emphaticly saying no he would not is sending a clear message such activity would not be accepted.

                            You are being naive.

                            Jim
                            You've passed on the opportunity to demonstrate that your two claims are true.

                            So you've accused Trump of two very serious things, neither of which he is actually guilty of.

                            Originally posted by MaxVel
                            (1) that Trump asked for foreign help (from the Russians) getting information on political opponents ; and
                            (2) that Trump promised not to contact the FBI if they (Russians / foreigners) do contact him
                            You've now shifted your claim to "Implication", and an attack on me ("naive") for believing the evidence (Trump didn't actually say or imply either of those two things) instead of being like you, and simply assuming Trump is guilty, even if there is no evidence to show that.

                            I engaged with you on this matter because I thought that you might be able to support your claims with evidence, and show that you are fair and objective. You've clearly demonstrated that you are prejudiced against Trump, and willing to assume he is wrong, even when the evidence shows otherwise. Further, you insulate yourself from being able to view Trump fairly by resorting to attacks on the integrity of anyone who disagrees and actually wants to measure Trump's actions by what he actually does.

                            IOW, you are prejudiced and biased against Trump, and you have created a mental framework where it is impossible for anyone to show that you're wrong about anything you believe about Trump, because the simple fact that they disagree with you on the facts of the matter thereby shows you that they are 'naive' or somehow intellectually dishonest, or morally compromised.

                            I stand by my previous statements, Jim. You're incapable of fairly analysing anything when Trump is involved, and you have made yourself incapable of being corrected when you are wrong about anything Trump says or does.
                            ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                              You've passed on the opportunity to demonstrate that your two claims are true.

                              So you've accused Trump of two very serious things, neither of which he is actually guilty of.



                              You've now shifted your claim to "Implication", and an attack on me ("naive") for believing the evidence (Trump didn't actually say or imply either of those two things) instead of being like you, and simply assuming Trump is guilty, even if there is no evidence to show that.

                              I engaged with you on this matter because I thought that you might be able to support your claims with evidence, and show that you are fair and objective. You've clearly demonstrated that you are prejudiced against Trump, and willing to assume he is wrong, even when the evidence shows otherwise. Further, you insulate yourself from being able to view Trump fairly by resorting to attacks on the integrity of anyone who disagrees and actually wants to measure Trump's actions by what he actually does.

                              IOW, you are prejudiced and biased against Trump, and you have created a mental framework where it is impossible for anyone to show that you're wrong about anything you believe about Trump, because the simple fact that they disagree with you on the facts of the matter thereby shows you that they are 'naive' or somehow intellectually dishonest, or morally compromised.

                              I stand by my previous statements, Jim. You're incapable of fairly analysing anything when Trump is involved, and you have made yourself incapable of being corrected when you are wrong about anything Trump says or does.
                              Sorry, all the news outlets understood the implications of trumps words on that point. You can be or can pretend to be naive about it, but that reflects poorly on you, not me.

                              He said he would listen to dirt on opponents given by a secret foreign caller. He said calling the FBI about it was stupid and argued he wasnt obligated to do so and even said Wray was wrong when Wray claimed otherwise.

                              If you cant comprehend what those statements mean, then me spending an hour or more transcribing the precise text and trying to wrap words around it that can cause you to admit naivete is a waste of my time.

                              Secondarily, of the two points i made, what you have called my two points are merely sub elements of my second point. The first point I made is that trump promised to restrict intelligence gathering by the cia against kim jong un.

                              Honestly maxvel, i simply refuse to cooperate with your attempt to avoid the issue through ad hominem attack on me. Your attemps to manipulate my response through those sort of ploys are simply going to be ignored

                              I will admit ad hominem works well against me here in this forum. You can attack me personally and you can do so here with impunity, and youll have lots of support and amens, because that is the narrative here.


                              Jim
                              Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-15-2019, 07:06 AM.
                              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Sorry, all the news outlets understood the implications of trumps words on that point. You can be or can pretend to be naive about it, but that reflects poorly on you, not me.
                                Quote exactly what he said, in context, that supports your two claims I questioned. That is the actual evidence, not what some third party thinks his words imply.


                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd
                                He said he would listen to dirt on opponents given by a secret foreign caller. He said calling the FBI about it was stupid and argued he wasnt obligated to do so and even said Wray was wrong when Wray claimed otherwise.
                                I don't believe he did exactly that, at all, and I've listened carefully to that section of the interview (see the YouTube link to the ABC segment) repeatedly. Can you quote just what he said that leads you to think that?

                                I'll give my rough transcript of the interview from the YouTube link, and include my thoughts. I'm doing your job for you, BTW. Feel free to supply a better transcript, with your thoughts.



                                Specifically he said that he would listen if someone like Norway (that was the example he gave) said they had information on a political opponent. Not 'secret' and not 'dirt' (although it would probably be negative information, I grant that. However I don't recall him using the word 'dirt', or 'secret' at all. You're using prejudicial language here.

                                Trump said calling the FBI was not needed, and Wray was wrong specifically in the context of a congressman being approached 'by someone' who said they had information of an opponent. The references to foreign entities came after that in the interview.
                                Trump then said, in response to the interviewer asking 'Your campaign this time round, if foreigners, if Russia, if China, if someone offers you information on opponents, should they accept it or should they call the FBI?'

                                (Note that the interviewer is a little hard to hear compared to Trump, and this question shifts from 'Your campaign' (the campaign staff (and Trump)??) to 'you' (Trump or the campaign as a whole??) to 'they' (not Trump, presumably the campaign). It's a poorly worded question, making it less clear exactly what Trump understands it to be asking, and what he is replying to.

                                Trump's reply to this question was "I think maybe you do both.[i.e. listen AND contact the FBI] I think maybe you might wanna listen. There's nothing wrong with listening. If someone called from a country - Norway - "I have information on your opponent" I think you'd wanna hear it." [Trump doesn't say if a foreign entity offered information he would not contact the FBI. The question is ambiguous (Your campaign-you-they) and so it's unclear precisely who he means by 'you' in his reply. He may mean himself, or his campaign (staff) or both. Either way, certainly doesn't promise not to contact the FBI. (That was one of your claims about what he said).

                                The interviewer then asks 'You want that kind of interference from the Russians?'

                                Trump replies: 'It's not an interference. They have information. I think I'd take it. If I thought there was something wrong, I'd go - maybe to the FBI [there seems to be slight pause after 'go', which may indicate he's deciding who he would go to], if I thought there was something wrong.'


                                Trump rejects that it would be interference (he may be wrong about that) so he is not saying that he wants Russia to interfere (as he understands interfere); and he indicates that he would go to someone - maybe the FBI - about it if he felt there was something wrong. It's not clear what 'something wrong' is intended to mean (favourable to Trump interpretations could include: an attempt at subverting the election process? The information shows that a third party has compromised someone in the election? Trump feeling that it's an attempt to compromise him? Something else?)


                                Is everything Trump said OK and do I agree with it all? No, but there is a lot of ambiguity in the interview segment, which is only part of a conversation - it finishes with Trump apparently poised to say more - what we don't know. That said, he clearly did not 'ask for foreign help' (you claimed he did), nor 'promise not to contact the FBI if foreigners did contact him' (again you claimed he did). Both of those are your claims, they are what I want you to support by looking at what Trump said, in context. I have shown that they are - to the best of my knowledge - not supported at all by what he said in that interview segment. They are misrepresentations of Trump, and are very serious accusations. If someone accused you of saying anything as serious as that, you would want them to back their accusation up with actual quotes, in context. Please do so.



                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd
                                If you cant comprehend what those statements mean, then me spending an hour or more transcribing the precise text and trying to wrap words around it that can cause you to admit naivete is a waste of my time.
                                You're assuming what you've been asked to show: that Trump actually said those things.



                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd
                                Secondarily, of the two points i made, what you have called my two points are merely sub elements of my second point. The first point I made is that trump promised to restrict intelligence gathering by the cia against kim jong un.

                                Honestly maxvel, i simply refuse to cooperate with your attempt to avoid the issue through ad hominem attack on me. Your attemps to manipulate my response through those sort of ploys are simply going to be ignored

                                I will admit ad hominem works well against me here in this forum. You can attack me personally and you can do so here with impunity, and youll have lots of support and amens, because that is the narrative here.


                                Jim

                                I haven't attacked you personally. I simply have said what I think to be the case - that you're prejudiced against Trump, and prone to attacking the character and integrity of anyone who disagrees with you on anything about Trump. Which you did when you called me 'naive'. I have supported my view with references to things you've posted in this very thread. If you want me to think differently, show me wrong. You have made specific claims about what trump said in that interview, I am asking you to back them up with reference to what Trump actually said, in context.


                                Here's an opportunity to engage in a close consideration of what Trump actually said, in context.
                                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                106 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post One Bad Pig  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                53 responses
                                306 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                196 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                84 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post JimL
                                by JimL
                                 
                                Working...
                                X