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Thread: And can you still support him?

  1. #81
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Back when the charges of collusion first started surfacing there were a number of legal experts from both sides of the aisle that were saying merely receiving information wouldn't break any laws. That would explain why that after the interview with Stephanopoulos Democrats have introduced measures requiring anyone getting such information to turn it over to the FBI. Such measures wouldn't be necessary if it were already illegal.

    Meanwhile, I wonder if any of those who screamed accepting assistance like this from foreigners is treason have now started to realize that it was the Clinton campaign who actually paid for a foreigner — Britain’s Christopher Steele — to use other foreigners (the Russians) to fabricate a completely phony "dossier" that was a massive, deliberate interference by foreigners in the 2016 election.

    Perhaps they should tend to their own crystal palaces before they start hurling stones about.
    While I am no fan of clinton*, i would say there is a difference between hiring a service from a foreign entity and being approached by a foreign entity with designs on influencing an election. And that difference is that there is no immediate threat the foreign entity in the former case has immediate intent to influence our election. That intent is coming from the candidate, a us citizen. In the latter case, the intents and motivations for driving the election one way or the other arise from foreign interests, not domestic ones.

    They both may be illegal and/or immoral, but for different reasons. And I think the higher threat to our national security, sovereignty, and electoral process lies with the latter.

    Jim

    *there are very few us citizens on the world stage thst I would see as a greater threat to our nation than Clinton, but unfortunately our current president is one of them.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-18-2019 at 04:28 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  2. #82
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    While I am no fan of clinton, i would say there is a difference between hiring a service from a foreign entity and being approached by a foreign entity with designs on influencing an election. And that difference is that there is no immediate threat the foreign entity in the former case has immediate intent to influence our election.


    Right, because a foreign agent hired by a US political campaign could only have the purest motives. No need to have them or their information vetted by the FBI. Instead, you funnel that sketchy information in form of a "dossier" to the FBI and let FBI use it to game the FISA court and launch a political witch-hunt against your opponent. Nothing wrong with that at all.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. #83
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    While I am no fan of clinton, i would say there is a difference between hiring a service from a foreign entity and being approached by a foreign entity with designs on influencing an election. And that difference is that there is no immediate threat the foreign entity in the former case has immediate intent to influence our election. That intent is coming from the candidate, a us citizen. In the latter case, the intents and motivations for driving the election one way or the other arise from foreign interests, not domestic ones.

    They both may be illegal and/or immoral, but for different reasons. And I think the higher threat to our national security, sovereignty, and electoral process lies with the latter.

    Jim
    When Trump proposed the scenario he said "somebody comes up." Not a foreigner. Not a representative of a foreign entity. Just "somebody comes up."

    Having said this there is a school of thought that Trump set up a trap when he started this and the left blundered right into it. They are now on record saying that what the Clinton campaign did is treason.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  4. #84
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    When Trump proposed the scenario he said "somebody comes up." Not a foreigner. Not a representative of a foreign entity. Just "somebody comes up."

    Having said this there is a school of thought that Trump set up a trap when he started this and the left blundered right into it. They are now on record saying that what the Clinton campaign did is treason.
    That is wishful thinking coupled with almost desperate political spin. Both Trump and Stephanopoulos were quite clear from the first few exchanges that the scenario included foreign operatives. While Trump did not specify as he opened the conversation on that topic, S began asking about that case from the first sentence.

    And to be honest, giving Trump credit for some kind of deep hyper-intelligent plan here sounds more like the response of cult members who deify their leader than any sort of reasonable possibility.


    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  5. #85
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is wishful thinking coupled with almost desperate political spin. Both Trump and Stephanopoulos were quite clear from the first few exchanges that the scenario included foreign operatives. While Trump did not specify as he opened the conversation on that topic, S began asking about that case from the first sentence.

    And to be honest, giving Trump credit for some kind of deep hyper-intelligent plan here sounds more like the response of cult members who deify their leader than any sort of reasonable possibility.


    Jim
    Whether or not it was what Trump intended when he brought it up it certainly is a result. And it really isn't very clever. It is almost obvious when you consider how his opponents typically respond.

    ETA: And evidence that this was a set up by Trump is the fact that the Mueller Report notes that the Russians made multiple attempts to infiltrate the Trump campaign and pass on "dirt" concerning Hillary -- and yet the Trump campaign refused to accept it every time. But now, after refusing to accept it in real life, Trump brings up the idea of accepting such info and saying he doesn't think it would be wrong. It doesn't take a psychic to predict how the left and Never Trumpers will react. It is in effect a knee-jerk reaction for them.
    Last edited by rogue06; 06-18-2019 at 04:57 AM.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  6. #86
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    When Trump proposed the scenario he said "somebody comes up." Not a foreigner. Not a representative of a foreign entity. Just "somebody comes up."

    Having said this there is a school of thought that Trump set up a trap when he started this and the left blundered right into it. They are now on record saying that what the Clinton campaign did is treason.
    Yes, but liberals and others are desperately trying to convince us that Trump's response to a hypothetical question is somehow worse than what Hillary and the Democrats actually did.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. Amen mossrose amen'd this post.
  8. #87
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Whether or not it was what Trump intended when he brought it up it certainly is a result. And it really isn't very clever. It is almost obvious when you consider how his opponents typically respond.

    ETA: And evidence that this was a set up by Trump is the fact that the Mueller Report notes that the Russians made multiple attempts to infiltrate the Trump campaign and pass on "dirt" concerning Hillary -- and yet the Trump campaign refused to accept it every time. But now, after refusing to accept it in real life, Trump brings up the idea of accepting such info and saying he doesn't think it would be wrong. It doesn't take a psychic to predict how the left and Never Trumpers will react. It is in effect a knee-jerk reaction for them.
    Wow, talk about revionist history. 'Refused to take it'. This is how you would characterize the infamous Trump tower meeting?


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-18-2019 at 05:28 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  9. #88
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Wow, talk about revionist history. 'Refused to take it'. This is how you would characterize the infamous Trump tower meeting?


    Jim
    IIRC the Mueller Report said that they rejected it.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  10. #89
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    IIRC the Mueller Report said that they rejected it.
    The Trump tower mtg, where we have an email or emails with them chomping at the bit to see the dirt the russian had?

    If they walked away from that meeting and didnt make use of what was given, it was beacause it was itself useless info.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-18-2019 at 05:34 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  11. #90
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    The Trump tower mtg, where we have an email or emails with them chomping at the bit to see the dirt the russian had?

    Jim
    And walked out empty handed having rejected the offer?

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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