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Thread: And can you still support him?

  1. #121
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    Didn't come close? Really MM? Meeting with agents of a foriegn adversary in order to get info valuable to your campaign and potentially damaging to your opponent, doesn't even come close to a crime? The president then writing a false account of the incident in order to cover it up, doesn't come close to a crime? Insufficient evidence to prove a crime is not the same thing as "not coming close to a crime." Sometimes people get away with crimes because ibn the mind of the prosecutor there is insufficient evidence to secure a successful prosecution. That doesn't mean that he doesn't believe that a crime was committed. And sometimes a Special Prosecutor simply spells out the evidence and leaves it to Congress to decide.


    Mueller didn't conclude that there was no crime, he concluded that, as a matter of law, he had insufficient evidence to prove a crime. But regardless of whether or not a Trump Jr. committed a crime which could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, Trump Sr. committed a crime by obstructing the investigation by falsifying an explanation concerning the purpose of the Trump Tower meeting.
    Unfortunately for you, Trump is 100% correct: there's no law against listening to what someone has to say, and no law that would compel one to report it to the FBI unless what the person in question tells you is itself illegal.

    Furthermore, there is no difference legally speaking between "This person did not commit a crime", "There is no evidence to prove that this person committed a crime", and "There is insufficient evidence to prove that this person committed a crime", because they all say the same thing in the end: "not guilty".

    Gee, it's just too bad Trump isn't as dumb and sloppy as you lot claim, otherwise he might not have been so good about covering his tracks to the point that even a corrupt investigator with unlimited scope and resources couldn't find them.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #122
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    I think (in the bolded above) you've given your true belief away here, MM. You simply don't care, you're a member of the cult.
    It is interesting that a person would find it comforting to know the leader of our country was smart enough to cover his tracks doing illegal things sufficiently well as be avoid getting caught even under the pressure of an investigation like Mueller's.

    That is the sort of thing that would make me even more wary of that leader. Obviously this leader is not only willing to commit crimes to accomplish his aims, he's really, really good at committing crimes and obscuring his true motives and actions.

    Such a leader is in fact a danger to our nation. And indeed, the Trump statements central to this OP are the statements of a person at odds with the best interests of our country and our society.


    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  3. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  4. #123
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    I think (in the bolded above) you've given your true belief away here, MM. You simply don't care, you're a member of the cult.
    I think the fact that you didn't recognize the bolded part as obvious sarcasm intended to tweak your nose does not speak well for own intelligence, or ox's, for that matter. Of course to conspiracy nuts like the two of you, a lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  5. #124
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I think the fact that you didn't recognize the bolded part as obvious sarcasm intended to tweak your nose does not speak well for own intelligence, or ox's, for that matter. Of course to conspiracy nuts like the two of you, a lack of evidence is the most convincing evidence of all.
    So then, you think Trump is as dumb and sloppy as we contend? Actually I don't think it so much that he is dumb, I think he is evil, he is power hungry, and his middle class and poor republican supporters are easily led by his lies. How you can be so blind is beyond me, but the fact that you are you make obvious. And btw, you can live in your fantasy world if you want, you can tell yourself that there is a lack of evidence for Trumps corruption, a lack of evidence for his creating an even bigger swamp than the one that he said he would drain, you can believe what he says rather than what is happening right before your own eyes, and then you can live with the consequences of your indifference, stupidity, or whatever it is that blinds you to facts. The great man behind the curtain of your mind, is an unethical fraud. A lot of people woke up to that fact in November 2018, maybe there is hope for you yet, but in your case, I very highly doubt that.
    Last edited by JimL; 06-20-2019 at 03:14 PM.

  6. #125
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It is interesting that a person would find it comforting to know the leader of our country was smart enough to cover his tracks doing illegal things sufficiently well as be avoid getting caught even under the pressure of an investigation like Mueller's.

    That is the sort of thing that would make me even more wary of that leader. Obviously this leader is not only willing to commit crimes to accomplish his aims, he's really, really good at committing crimes and obscuring his true motives and actions.

    Such a leader is in fact a danger to our nation. And indeed, the Trump statements central to this OP are the statements of a person at odds with the best interests of our country and our society.


    Jim
    All true, Jim, and I think that MM's statement had a bit of a Freudian slip in it. He's happy that Trump was able to cover his corrupt tracks sufficiently enough and to appoint a lackey of an Atty Gen., corrupt enough in his own right, to aid him in that cover-up in order to evade the consequences. But he hasn't got away with it yet and we will see if the strength of our democracy will land him where he belongs or is brought to its knees by him and his band of unethical, undemocratic, authoritarian crooks.

  7. #126
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    I think that MM's statement had a bit of a Freudian slip in it.
    You don't even know what a Freudian slip is.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  8. Amen One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  9. #127
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    So then, you think Trump is as dumb and sloppy as we contend? Actually I don't think it so much that he is dumb, I think he is evil, he is power hungry, and his middle class and poor republican supporters are easily led by his lies. How you can be so blind is beyond me, but the fact that you are you make obvious. And btw, you can live in your fantasy world if you want, you can tell yourself that there is a lack of evidence for Trumps corruption, a lack of evidence for his creating an even bigger swamp than the one that he said he would drain, you can believe what he says rather than what is happening right before your own eyes, and then you can live with the consequences of your indifference, stupidity, or whatever it is that blinds you to facts. The great man behind the curtain of your mind, is an unethical fraud. A lot of people woke up to that fact in November 2018, maybe there is hope for you yet, but in your case, I very highly doubt that.
    Obviously I can see a MM response when you quote him. But I think given the number of lies, shady moves, out and out illegal actions (but 'overlooked' by the senate republicans), the continued stonewalling (continued claims of executive privileged to keep those that know from revealing what they know), and Trump's continued disrespect for the office and the constitution (e.g. "Hey - my supporters may 'demand' I come back for a third term ...") make the idea that a comment of that sort could somehow constitute 'sarcasm' or be reasonably interpreted as such a very odd sort of fantasy.

    There are multiple examples on this website of Trump supporters reveling in Trump getting away with evil and/or crimes, of them taunting those that call Trump out on that very same evil, of over and over again the blame being shifted from the man doing wrong to those that refuse to excuse the man doing wrong. The adoption of mafioso like terms such as 'rat' for people that tell the truth about something that casts Trump in a bad light - even if that thing is immoral or illegal.

    It all adds up to people laying down their otherwise good moral character at the alter of a Trump presidency. And it is a very sad thing to watch.

    And I think there is another consequence to this - and I hope you Trump guys will listen. Trump's excess has - in fact - emboldened left wingers to shift farther left. They feel that Trump is so bad, they can take enough people with them into the farther left position to win. That of course might backfire and we'll end up with a second Trump term in 2020. But if it doesn't, we could turn in an equally dark leftward tack. In many ways, Trump winning has almost forced a move either towards an even worse rock and a hard place than we had with Hillary vs Trump: electing a man with clear despotic tendencies and a reckless disregard for truth (Trump), or electing a full on socialist with all the negative impacts of that. Either way, the continued naivete of the Trump supporter coupled with the corruption of Trump himself is sending us down some very dark roads.


    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  10. #128
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    There are multiple examples on this website of Trump supporters reveling in Trump getting away with evil and/or crimes...
    Dirty Cop Mueller: "I could not conclude that the President committed any crimes."

    Trump supporters: "Yay!"

    Delusional anti-Trumpers: "Look how they celebrate Trump getting away with it!"
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #129
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Obviously I can see a MM response when you quote him. But I think given the number of lies, shady moves, out and out illegal actions (but 'overlooked' by the senate republicans), the continued stonewalling (continued claims of executive privileged to keep those that know from revealing what they know), and Trump's continued disrespect for the office and the constitution (e.g. "Hey - my supporters may 'demand' I come back for a third term ...") make the idea that a comment of that sort could somehow constitute 'sarcasm' or be reasonably interpreted as such a very odd sort of fantasy.

    There are multiple examples on this website of Trump supporters reveling in Trump getting away with evil and/or crimes, of them taunting those that call Trump out on that very same evil, of over and over again the blame being shifted from the man doing wrong to those that refuse to excuse the man doing wrong. The adoption of mafioso like terms such as 'rat' for people that tell the truth about something that casts Trump in a bad light - even if that thing is immoral or illegal.

    It all adds up to people laying down their otherwise good moral character at the alter of a Trump presidency. And it is a very sad thing to watch.

    And I think there is another consequence to this - and I hope you Trump guys will listen. Trump's excess has - in fact - emboldened left wingers to shift farther left. They feel that Trump is so bad, they can take enough people with them into the farther left position to win. That of course might backfire and we'll end up with a second Trump term in 2020. But if it doesn't, we could turn in an equally dark leftward tack. In many ways, Trump winning has almost forced a move either towards an even worse rock and a hard place than we had with Hillary vs Trump: electing a man with clear despotic tendencies and a reckless disregard for truth (Trump), or electing a full on socialist with all the negative impacts of that. Either way, the continued naivete of the Trump supporter coupled with the corruption of Trump himself is sending us down some very dark roads.


    Jim
    Evidence of crimes presented: none.

    If you say he committed crimes. List the right here with the laws that were broken. Iíll wait.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  12. #130
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Evidence of crimes presented: none.

    If you say he committed crimes. List the right here with the laws that were broken. Iíll wait.
    Even Mueller didn't have the guts to directly accuse Trump of breaking the law.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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