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  • #16
    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Don't be stupid. Trump asked for and obtained help from the Russians during his 2016 campaign. Though those efforts - apparently - do not deserve the label 'conspiracy'. Now not only isn't he apologetic, he's upped the anti by asking for such help again and promising not to contact the FBI if they do contact him.

    seer - this is way over the line. Are you so blind you can't see that. So deluded you are willing to excuse it by trying to say 'but look what clinton did ...'.

    Do you realize you are defending a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign powers for the 2020 election?

    Is there nothing this man can do to compromise out government and electoral process that you will not defend?


    Jim
    Quote Trump's exact words in the link you provided that say that. I can't find anything he said where he is "asking for" foreign help, nor where he promises "..not to contact the FBI..."
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      So let me get this right. In the face of a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign governments to win an election you will defend him in that act, and then try to deflect to some other person doing something that was also wrong, but not as bad as what the president just did?

      You talk about me losing it MaxVel. All I am is incensed by a man willing to use foreign help to win a US presidential election.

      Really? Explain this to me: Why aren't YOU losing it too MaxVel?

      Where do your loyalties lie?

      Are you really willing to start letting foreign powers determine who we elect as president?


      Jim
      Please read my post #11, and my post #16, and respond to those first.
      ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
        (1) He's not my President. I don't really have a dog in the fight. If Trump says or does something truly wrong, or stupid, it's no skin off my nose. If I see that he's being misquoted, misrepresented, or lied about, I don't feel tempted to think 'well, he deserves it, 'cause he's so bad. Maybe it is true'.

        (2) I do lean Trump-ish, but I'm definitely way more objective than you. Imagine that Trump actually was misquoted or misrepresented in a particular story. How could you possibly be convinced of that? I can't see a way.

        (3) The fact that anyone who disagrees with you that 'Trump is evil', even if only about one particular instance is prejudged as "...motivated and willing to overlook so much..." should tell you how unobjective you are. You've already positioned yourself so that no possible counter argument could convince you, because it could only come from someone who is willing to overlook how evil Trump really is. Ergo, no evidence could convince you otherwise.

        What would be the point of trying to argue against you when all it would do is confirm your prejudice that anyone who defends Trump in anything at all is supporting evil and clearly biased and irrational?
        He wasn't misquoted - You can watch the video to see what he was asked and what he said.

        I'm not saying "Trump is evil". I'm saying "Trump did X and Y - will you defend it". And the answer is - Yes, you will defend Trump (X) compromising our intelligence efforts and (Y) asking for help from a/any foreign government to win the 2020 election.


        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
          He wasn't misquoted - You can watch the video to see what he was asked and what he said.
          Jim
          Give his actual words, then.

          Originally posted by oxmixmudd
          I'm not saying "Trump is evil". I'm saying "Trump did X and Y - will you defend it". And the answer is - Yes, you will defend Trump (X) compromising our intelligence efforts and (Y) asking for help from a/any foreign government to win the 2020 election.


          Jim

          You've assumed what you're arguing for. I'm asking you to show specifically that your claim (what Trump actually said) here is true. Until you do that, I don't grant your X or Y above. I'm agnostic about them both in this particular instance.
          ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
            Quote Trump's exact words in the link you provided that say that. I can't find anything he said where he is "asking for" foreign help, nor where he promises "..not to contact the FBI..."
            http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...315#post641315

            Source: above

            "Somebody comes up and says, 'Hey, I have information on your opponent,' do you call the FBI?" Trump said. "I'll tell you what, I've seen a lot of things over my life. I don't think in my whole life I've ever called the FBI. In my whole life. You don't call the FBI. You throw somebody out of your office, you do whatever you do. Oh, give me a break — life doesn't work that way."

            Stephanopoulos pointed out that FBI Director Christopher Wray told Congress last month that the "FBI would want to know about" foreign election meddling. "The FBI director is wrong, because frankly it doesn't happen like that in life,"

            © Copyright Original Source




            In the same interview he said - when asked about foreign entities offering dirt on rivals:

            https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/polit...als/index.html

            "I think you might want to listen," Trump said in an interview with ABC News that aired on Wednesday. "There isn't anything wrong with listening."


            When a person is granted a security clearance, they are told the MUST contact their security POC if they are EVER approached by foreign entities for any reason. And I guarantee you that is what the 99.999% that are not traitors to this country will do under that circumstance.




            Jim
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
              Give his actual words, then.




              You've assumed what you're arguing for. I'm asking you to show specifically that your claim (what Trump actually said) here is true. Until you do that, I don't grant your X or Y above. I'm agnostic about them both in this particular instance.
              Do you know how to use google?


              Jim
              My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

              If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

              This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...315#post641315

                Source: above

                "Somebody comes up and says, 'Hey, I have information on your opponent,' do you call the FBI?" Trump said. "I'll tell you what, I've seen a lot of things over my life. I don't think in my whole life I've ever called the FBI. In my whole life. You don't call the FBI. You throw somebody out of your office, you do whatever you do. Oh, give me a break — life doesn't work that way."

                Stephanopoulos pointed out that FBI Director Christopher Wray told Congress last month that the "FBI would want to know about" foreign election meddling. "The FBI director is wrong, because frankly it doesn't happen like that in life,"

                © Copyright Original Source




                In the same interview he said - when asked about foreign entities offering dirt on rivals:

                https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/polit...als/index.html

                "I think you might want to listen," Trump said in an interview with ABC News that aired on Wednesday. "There isn't anything wrong with listening."


                When a person is granted a security clearance, they are told the MUST contact their security POC if they are EVER approached by foreign entities for any reason. And I guarantee you that is what the 99.999% that are not traitors to this country will do under that circumstance.




                Jim
                Your link doesn't have the part of the interview that you quote above.


                I can't see how that connects with what is available, which doesn't support either of your claims (A) that he was "asking for help" from foreign entities (what you've cited above doesn't support that, he was asked a hypothetical about what he would do if he was approached by foreign entities), nor

                (B) that he "promised" (if offered help) not to contact the FBI. He said he might contact the FBI, in particular if there was 'something wrong'. It's not clear if he means 'something wrong in the information supplied (e.g. possible evidence that someone was compromised or acting for a foreign entity)', or if he means 'something wrong in the way the offer was made, or the circumstances it was made in'

                I also note that the excerpt in your link was cut off when he was in the middle of saying something, or about to say something (note it ends on a freeze with his mouth half open). I'd want to see the full context, including what he said after the excerpt we have.
                ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Nice dodge.






                  C'mon, if you're sincere about making an argument then you need to supply the data to support it.

                  Feel free to tell me you won't, or you don't want to. But don't then say that anyone who disagrees with you is close-minded, or biased, or sold out for Trump. And don't expect me to think that you're impartial, or that you're correct on what Trump said.

                  I've listened multiple times to the interview in your original link, and I can't see him saying anything of the kind (your two specific claims discussed above). I don't care what interpretation anyone else puts on his words, I want to know what he actually said, in full context, that shows your two claims to be correct. That is only fair to the man.
                  Last edited by MaxVel; 06-13-2019, 09:56 AM.
                  ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                    Your link doesn't have the part of the interview that you quote above.
                    It was aired on wednesday night. Eventually there may be a trasncript of the entire interview, you also might be able to get it somewhere else like on demand for cable, but a quick google doesn't show the entire interview.

                    But trump has tried to walk it back a bit today, trying to claim other contexts than the one specified in the interview etc. That in itself should tell you the content is correct. He wouldn't be trying to correct perceptions about words he'd never spoken, he'd be saying he didn't say them.


                    Reality is, trump can shoot a man in broad daylight and you guys would still excuse him. There is no excuse for a president encouraging help from foreign governments in an election and promising to hamper intelligence gathering groups like the CIA by implying publicly that for certain foreign leaders he would limit their access to sources.

                    It is a very, very said day when conservative republicans normally with an eye to protecting the constitution and the security of our nation on the world stage will drop those ideals for political reasons.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-13-2019, 11:33 AM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      It was aired on wednesday night. Eventually there may be a trascript of the entire interview, you might be able to get it somewhere else, a quick google doesn't show the entire interview.

                      But trump has tried to walk it back a bit today, trying to claim other contexts than the one specified in the interview etc. That in itself should tell you the content is correct. He wouldn't be trying to correct perceptions about words he'd never spoken, he'd be saying he didn't say them.


                      Reality is, trump can shoot a man in broad daylight and you guys would still excuse him. There is no excuse for a president encouraging help from foreign governments in an election and promising to hamper intelligence gathering groups like the CIA by implying publicly that for certain foreign leaders he would limit their access to sources.

                      It is a very, very said day when conservative republicans normally with an eye to protecting the constitution and the security of our nation on the world stage will drop those ideals for political reasons.

                      Jim
                      Actually Donald Trump said in his campaign that he could shoot someone in broad daylight and people would still support him. And I'm now inclined to believe that is true. Especially given the issues that are happening now that those who blindly support him willingly excuse.
                      A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                      George Bernard Shaw

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        Do you know how to use google?


                        Jim
                        you are making the claim Jim it is up to you to cite your sources not ask someone else to do your homework for you.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          last I heard he was not president ...
                          Praise God!!!
                          When I Survey....

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            So after this one lands as being yet another dud of reporters misquoting it flat out lying about what was said, how long will it take you to run to the next narrative without admitting your previous one was false?
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              It might be worth adding that, IMO at least, reading a transcript of Donald Trump's spoken words is...less than clear, usually. He's no golden-tongued orator, to say the least.
                              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                                Consider these two events:

                                1) Trump asserts that he would have never allowed the CIA to recruit Kim Jong Un's brother (despite later attempts to claim that is not what he 'meant')

                                2) Trump explicitly and without apology asserts that he will take dirt on a political opponent from any foreign power or foreign adversary that provides it:

                                Source: https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/politics/donald-trump-spy-election-2020-foreign-government/index.html

                                This was the President of the United States -- the man charged with protecting the Constitution, American democracy and the Western world -- sitting at the Resolute desk in the Oval Office, saying he would accept damaging information from Russia and China on his 2020 opponent.

                                © Copyright Original Source




                                So I wait. Can you continue to support a president that is so completely willing to publicly and without apology undermine our intelligence community and our democratic process?



                                Jim
                                Meanwhile, the previous candidate for president on the Democrat side actually did collude with a foreign power, not to obtain dirt on her rival, but to manufacture and fabricate it.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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