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Thread: And can you still support him?

  1. #11
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    nice dodge ...
    (1) He's not my President. I don't really have a dog in the fight. If Trump says or does something truly wrong, or stupid, it's no skin off my nose. If I see that he's being misquoted, misrepresented, or lied about, I don't feel tempted to think 'well, he deserves it, 'cause he's so bad. Maybe it is true'.

    (2) I do lean Trump-ish, but I'm definitely way more objective than you. Imagine that Trump actually was misquoted or misrepresented in a particular story. How could you possibly be convinced of that? I can't see a way.

    (3) The fact that anyone who disagrees with you that 'Trump is evil', even if only about one particular instance is prejudged as "...motivated and willing to overlook so much..." should tell you how unobjective you are. You've already positioned yourself so that no possible counter argument could convince you, because it could only come from someone who is willing to overlook how evil Trump really is. Ergo, no evidence could convince you otherwise.

    What would be the point of trying to argue against you when all it would do is confirm your prejudice that anyone who defends Trump in anything at all is supporting evil and clearly biased and irrational?
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  2. #12
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, this is nonsense. The only campaign that actually did use foreign sources against their opponent was the Clinton campaign, using a British national to do it. No mis-characterization here.
    Hillary also conspired with the Ukrainian government to dig up dirt on Paul Manafort.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...ackfire-233446
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  3. #13
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, this is nonsense. The only campaign that actually did use foreign sources against their opponent was the Clinton campaign, using a British national to do it. No mis-characterization here.
    And they paid for it. They paid for dirt to be dug up, to use against a political opponent. Just a little different from Trump saying that he'd have to look at it if someone came to him with something. Note that he is the President, and so has some responsibility to at least consider how it might affect the country.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  4. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Jim, this is nonsense. The only campaign that actually did use foreign sources against their opponent was the Clinton campaign, using a British national to do it. No mis-characterization here.
    Don't be stupid. Trump asked for and obtained help from the Russians during his 2016 campaign. Though those efforts - apparently - do not deserve the label 'conspiracy'. Now not only isn't he apologetic, he's upped the anti by asking for such help again and promising not to contact the FBI if they do contact him.

    seer - this is way over the line. Are you so blind you can't see that. So deluded you are willing to excuse it by trying to say 'but look what clinton did ...'.

    Do you realize you are defending a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign powers for the 2020 election?

    Is there nothing this man can do to compromise out government and electoral process that you will not defend?


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  6. #15
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    And they paid for it. They paid for dirt to be dug up, to use against a political opponent. Just a little different from Trump saying that he'd have to look at it if someone came to him with something. Note that he is the President, and so has some responsibility to at least consider how it might affect the country.
    So let me get this right. In the face of a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign governments to win an election you will defend him in that act, and then try to deflect to some other person doing something that was also wrong, but not as bad as what the president just did?

    You talk about me losing it MaxVel. All I am is incensed by a man willing to use foreign help to win a US presidential election.

    Really? Explain this to me: Why aren't YOU losing it too MaxVel?

    Where do your loyalties lie?

    Are you really willing to start letting foreign powers determine who we elect as president?


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  7. #16
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Don't be stupid. Trump asked for and obtained help from the Russians during his 2016 campaign. Though those efforts - apparently - do not deserve the label 'conspiracy'. Now not only isn't he apologetic, he's upped the anti by asking for such help again and promising not to contact the FBI if they do contact him.

    seer - this is way over the line. Are you so blind you can't see that. So deluded you are willing to excuse it by trying to say 'but look what clinton did ...'.

    Do you realize you are defending a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign powers for the 2020 election?

    Is there nothing this man can do to compromise out government and electoral process that you will not defend?


    Jim
    Quote Trump's exact words in the link you provided that say that. I can't find anything he said where he is "asking for" foreign help, nor where he promises "..not to contact the FBI..."
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  8. #17
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    So let me get this right. In the face of a sitting president publicly asking for help from foreign governments to win an election you will defend him in that act, and then try to deflect to some other person doing something that was also wrong, but not as bad as what the president just did?

    You talk about me losing it MaxVel. All I am is incensed by a man willing to use foreign help to win a US presidential election.

    Really? Explain this to me: Why aren't YOU losing it too MaxVel?

    Where do your loyalties lie?

    Are you really willing to start letting foreign powers determine who we elect as president?


    Jim
    Please read my post #11, and my post #16, and respond to those first.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  9. #18
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    (1) He's not my President. I don't really have a dog in the fight. If Trump says or does something truly wrong, or stupid, it's no skin off my nose. If I see that he's being misquoted, misrepresented, or lied about, I don't feel tempted to think 'well, he deserves it, 'cause he's so bad. Maybe it is true'.

    (2) I do lean Trump-ish, but I'm definitely way more objective than you. Imagine that Trump actually was misquoted or misrepresented in a particular story. How could you possibly be convinced of that? I can't see a way.

    (3) The fact that anyone who disagrees with you that 'Trump is evil', even if only about one particular instance is prejudged as "...motivated and willing to overlook so much..." should tell you how unobjective you are. You've already positioned yourself so that no possible counter argument could convince you, because it could only come from someone who is willing to overlook how evil Trump really is. Ergo, no evidence could convince you otherwise.

    What would be the point of trying to argue against you when all it would do is confirm your prejudice that anyone who defends Trump in anything at all is supporting evil and clearly biased and irrational?
    He wasn't misquoted - You can watch the video to see what he was asked and what he said.

    I'm not saying "Trump is evil". I'm saying "Trump did X and Y - will you defend it". And the answer is - Yes, you will defend Trump (X) compromising our intelligence efforts and (Y) asking for help from a/any foreign government to win the 2020 election.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  10. #19
    tWebber MaxVel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    He wasn't misquoted - You can watch the video to see what he was asked and what he said.
    Jim
    Give his actual words, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd
    I'm not saying "Trump is evil". I'm saying "Trump did X and Y - will you defend it". And the answer is - Yes, you will defend Trump (X) compromising our intelligence efforts and (Y) asking for help from a/any foreign government to win the 2020 election.


    Jim

    You've assumed what you're arguing for. I'm asking you to show specifically that your claim (what Trump actually said) here is true. Until you do that, I don't grant your X or Y above. I'm agnostic about them both in this particular instance.
    ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

  11. #20
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxVel View Post
    Quote Trump's exact words in the link you provided that say that. I can't find anything he said where he is "asking for" foreign help, nor where he promises "..not to contact the FBI..."
    http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...315#post641315

    Source: above

    "Somebody comes up and says, 'Hey, I have information on your opponent,' do you call the FBI?" Trump said. "I'll tell you what, I've seen a lot of things over my life. I don't think in my whole life I've ever called the FBI. In my whole life. You don't call the FBI. You throw somebody out of your office, you do whatever you do. Oh, give me a break — life doesn't work that way."

    Stephanopoulos pointed out that FBI Director Christopher Wray told Congress last month that the "FBI would want to know about" foreign election meddling. "The FBI director is wrong, because frankly it doesn't happen like that in life,"

    © Copyright Original Source




    In the same interview he said - when asked about foreign entities offering dirt on rivals:

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/12/polit...als/index.html

    "I think you might want to listen," Trump said in an interview with ABC News that aired on Wednesday. "There isn't anything wrong with listening."


    When a person is granted a security clearance, they are told the MUST contact their security POC if they are EVER approached by foreign entities for any reason. And I guarantee you that is what the 99.999% that are not traitors to this country will do under that circumstance.




    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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