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Thread: Suicide

  1. #11
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Hi John! It's great to see you here again...but as Sparko said, under such sad circumstances. I know I speak for all of us when I say thank you for trusting us and turning to your friends here at TWEB for some comfort and understanding.

    Of course, none of us know your brother Jerry, but, one thing I think all of us can agree on is that we serve a Wonderful, merciful, gracious, loving God...and I believe that the God we serve, would move Heaven and Earth to try to save your brother, both physically and spiritually. Unfortunately, we know the answer to the first part...but, we cannot know in this world if God was successful or not on the second part. All we can do is trust in Him and hope that God was able to perform that miracle.

    Bless you my brother John! You and your family are in our prayers!
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  2. #12
    tWebber John Reece's Avatar
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    Jerry was a phenomenal person. He built an entire custom automobile when he was a teenager. He built entire houses all his adult life. He was a "do it yourself" guy.

    Near the time both my parents (in their 90's) were in need of being put into a nursing home or having full-time care in their own home, certain things happened in Jerry's life that revealed something of his character.

    One night he was driving (one of his custom made pickup trucks, by the way) in the wee hours of the morning going from a date with a friend in southern Virginia to his home in northern Virginia. He was traveling the back roads, avoiding the interstate highway, when he fell asleep and crashed into a tree. By the time a rescue team got to him he was nearly without any blood, the top of his head "scalped", with multiple severe internal injuries. He was told that when he was admitted to the hospital he was as near dead as possible without passing over into death.

    I heard about his accident and called him while he was still in the hospital. He told me that he knew his life had been "spared for a purpose" and that "I do not know what that purpose is, but I am going to find out."

    To be continued...

  3. #13
    tWebber John Reece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    Hi John! It's great to see you here again...but as Sparko said, under such sad circumstances. I know I speak for all of us when I say thank you for trusting us and turning to your friends here at TWEB for some comfort and understanding.

    Of course, none of us know your brother Jerry, but, one thing I think all of us can agree on is that we serve a Wonderful, merciful, gracious, loving God...and I believe that the God we serve, would move Heaven and Earth to try to save your brother, both physically and spiritually. Unfortunately, we know the answer to the first part...but, we cannot know in this world if God was successful or not on the second part. All we can do is trust in Him and hope that God was able to perform that miracle.

    Bless you my brother John! You and your family are in our prayers!
    Thank you, Little Joe.

  4. #14
    tWebber John Reece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Reece View Post
    Jerry was a phenomenal person. He built an entire custom automobile when he was a teenager. He built entire houses all his adult life. He was a "do it yourself" guy.

    Near the time both my parents (in their 90's) were in need of being put into a nursing home or having full-time care in their own home, certain things happened in Jerry's life that revealed something of his character.

    One night he was driving (one of his custom made pickup trucks, by the way) in the wee hours of the morning going from a date with a friend in southern Virginia to his home in northern Virginia. He was traveling the back roads, avoiding the interstate highway, when he fell asleep and crashed into a tree. By the time a rescue team got to him he was nearly without any blood, the top of his head "scalped", with multiple severe internal injuries. He was told that when he was admitted to the hospital he was as near dead as possible without passing over into death.

    I heard about his accident and called him while he was still in the hospital. He told me that he knew his life had been "spared for a purpose" and that "I do not know what that purpose is, but I am going to find out."

    To be continued...
    Continued from the post above...

    Some time after Jerry was discharged from the hospital and was staying in the home of my 90+year old parents, I got a telephone call from my older sister who lives in Pennsylvania who said to me something like, "John, you won't believe what Jerry is doing." Betty had driven down from Pennsylvania to our parents home in northern Virginia for a visit and was astonished to find that Jerry had shut down his business as a building inspector to become a 24/7 caretaker for our parents. She said he had gone to an appliance store and asked for "the best carpet cleaner available" with which to clean the carpets that our incontinent father messed on multiple times a day. After every such event, Jerry would put Dad in the shower, clean him up, then clean the carpeting and bedding, and put Dad back to bed. Dad could not feed himself, so Jerry had built a special chair like a child's high chair, with a combination cloth cover that could be tied around Dad's neck as a bib that extended to a tray that lay on the dinner table.

    After hearing that from Betty, I called Jerry and said, "Betty told me what you are doing." Jerry's only response was, "I'm sure Betty must have been exaggerating". During subsequent conversation Jerry told me that with regard to his comment that I quoted at the end of the paragraph I quoted above, that he had come to believe that the reason his life was spared when he nearly died was to take care of our parents until they both died. So he committed his life 100% to that task and persevered all the way to the fulfillment of it.

    I think he must have become depressed when both parents were gone and he was alone with no wife or children or anyone else to live with, because (according to my older sister who continued to visit him and to keep me updated re his status) he moved to Winchester VA to build a new house and did not send me his new phone number. All I had was his email address, and he never responded to my messages to him.

    When my brother Paul called me re Jerry's suicide, he said that Jerry had been experiencing symptoms of early stage Alzheimer's disease, and that a female friend who was dear to him had recently died.

    My impression is that Jerry's suicide was the consequence of depression following the loss of both parents and his dear friend, and of his "I can fix anything by myself" mindset. There was no one else in his life that he could take care of, and he could not accept a destiny of needing someone else to take care of him. From his perspective, it was the only rational thing to do.

  5. #15
    tWebber Thoughtful Monk's Avatar
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    God help me, this is a hard topic to respond to. I wish no one ever had to deal with the consequences of suicide.

    I know historically, that suicide has been viewed as a one-way, direct ticket to Hell. Unfortunately, I still see this view on occasion. The despair, and I admit I have been closer to it than is comfortable, that one must have to commit suicide is hard to deal with. And unfortunately, it tends to cut one off from society. One really feels like they don't belong - maybe not even human anymore.

    At this point, I fall on God's mercy. He knows all and will make a righteous decision about the person. This is our consolation, God is merciful. For me, 1st John 3:20 speaks to this: "If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything."

    May God minister to everyone in this situation.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    My time to be on TWeb is unpredictable. It may take a few days for me to see your post and respond.

  6. #16
    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Having lost a sister-in-law to cancer, and having lost a sister-in-law to suicide, I tend to view depression as being as much of a disease as cancer is.
    I don't think God judges those who lost the battle against depression any more harshly than those who lose the battle against cancer.

    I do view someone who is depressed and commit suicide differently to someone who opts for euthanasia, especially if the motive for it is not wanting to deal with a disability.

    I don't consider someone who commits suicide, be it because they were depressed or have chosen euthanasia as being particularly brave as some do.
    I consider those who fight tooth and nail against their depression as being as brave as any cancer patient fighting against cancer, even if they lose that battle.



    And my thoughts and prayers with your family John.
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  7. #17
    tWebber Ana Dragule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Reece View Post
    Continued from the post above...

    Some time after Jerry was discharged from the hospital and was staying in the home of my 90+year old parents, I got a telephone call from my older sister who lives in Pennsylvania who said to me something like, "John, you won't believe what Jerry is doing." Betty had driven down from Pennsylvania to our parents home in northern Virginia for a visit and was astonished to find that Jerry had shut down his business as a building inspector to become a 24/7 caretaker for our parents. She said he had gone to an appliance store and asked for "the best carpet cleaner available" with which to clean the carpets that our incontinent father messed on multiple times a day. After every such event, Jerry would put Dad in the shower, clean him up, then clean the carpeting and bedding, and put Dad back to bed. Dad could not feed himself, so Jerry had built a special chair like a child's high chair, with a combination cloth cover that could be tied around Dad's neck as a bib that extended to a tray that lay on the dinner table.

    After hearing that from Betty, I called Jerry and said, "Betty told me what you are doing." Jerry's only response was, "I'm sure Betty must have been exaggerating". During subsequent conversation Jerry told me that with regard to his comment that I quoted at the end of the paragraph I quoted above, that he had come to believe that the reason his life was spared when he nearly died was to take care of our parents until they both died. So he committed his life 100% to that task and persevered all the way to the fulfillment of it.

    I think he must have become depressed when both parents were gone and he was alone with no wife or children or anyone else to live with, because (according to my older sister who continued to visit him and to keep me updated re his status) he moved to Winchester VA to build a new house and did not send me his new phone number. All I had was his email address, and he never responded to my messages to him.

    When my brother Paul called me re Jerry's suicide, he said that Jerry had been experiencing symptoms of early stage Alzheimer's disease, and that a female friend who was dear to him had recently died.

    My impression is that Jerry's suicide was the consequence of depression following the loss of both parents and his dear friend, and of his "I can fix anything by myself" mindset. There was no one else in his life that he could take care of, and he could not accept a destiny of needing someone else to take care of him. From his perspective, it was the only rational thing to do.
    God is merciful. Lord have mercy and let Jerry and his whole family receive your mercy.
    I am become death...

  8. Amen Raphael amen'd this post.
  9. #18
    tWebber John Reece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
    God help me, this is a hard topic to respond to. I wish no one ever had to deal with the consequences of suicide.

    I know historically, that suicide has been viewed as a one-way, direct ticket to Hell. Unfortunately, I still see this view on occasion. The despair, and I admit I have been closer to it than is comfortable, that one must have to commit suicide is hard to deal with. And unfortunately, it tends to cut one off from society. One really feels like they don't belong - maybe not even human anymore.

    At this point, I fall on God's mercy. He knows all and will make a righteous decision about the person. This is our consolation, God is merciful. For me, 1st John 3:20 speaks to this: "If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything."

    May God minister to everyone in this situation.
    Thank you, Thoughtful Monk.

  10. #19
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Praying for you, John, and for your family, and for your brother too.

    If we die with unconfessed sin, is this held against us? I believe when we turn to the Lord, future sins are forgiven, as well as past and present ones. Forgiveness involves confessing our sins, note that 1 John 1:9 does not say "if we confess each sin". I can't remember each sin I have committed, especially sins hidden from me. So sins plural, and God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (plural again, including future sins), and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    So I believe and hope your brother Jerry, in turning to Christ, confessed his sins in confessing that he was a sinner, and then we may know that God set out to cleanse him from all unrighteousness.

    Blessing and grace and peace,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  11. Amen Raphael amen'd this post.
  12. #20
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    If we die with unconfessed sin, is this held against us? I believe when we turn to the Lord, future sins are forgiven, as well as past and present ones. Forgiveness involves confessing our sins, note that 1 John 1:9 does not say "if we confess each sin". I can't remember each sin I have committed, especially sins hidden from me. So sins plural, and God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (plural again, including future sins), and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    This isn't the place to discuss this, but I very much disagree with your reasoning here. Pretty much everyone dies with unconfessed sin.
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