Originally posted by seer
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Philosophy 201 Guidelines
Cogito ergo sum
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!
Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less
Can Atheism Account For Rationality
Collapse
X
-
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAs for the appellation, you can be assured that I am fairly regularly called (or accused of being) many things around here, many of them both uncivil and simply wrong. Such is life.
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostA thought/belief may or may not be rational. If it is counter to the principles of reason/logic (I believe A is not equal to A), it is irrational. If it conforms to them (I believe A is equal to A), it is rational. If it is indifferent to them (I think that I'd like a cup of coffee) it is nonrational. A good fart, as far as I know, is nonrational. It has nothing to do with rationality.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI give up. You are determined to be as confusing as possible. "in accordance with logic" doesn't actually clarify anything. In accordance how? How can something that exists NOT be in accordance with logic? Give me an example.
And IS a flower a rational object or not? You tell me.
Dictionary definition of "rational" - "in accordance with the principles of reason or logic."
Example of "rational" - "I believe a thing is itself"
Example of "irrational" - "I believe a thing is not itself"
Example of "nonrational" - "I think I want a pizza."
The first is in accordance with (aligned with, based on) the fundamental principle of identity - accepted to be a universal, absolute, truth.
The second is not in accordance with (aligned on, based on) the fundamental principle of identity - it defies it.
The third has nothing to do with reason/logic whatsoever, it neither is aligned with a logical principle, or in defiance of one. It has nothing to do with logic.
A flower is not a "rational" object, AFAIK. It doesn't make choices based on Boolean operations, apply the law of identity or noncontradiction in a decision process, etc. It is also not irrational. It has essentially nothing to do with logic/reason, AFAIK. So it is nonrational.
If you know otherwise, by all means share.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostEh, you give as well as you get. Just a few days ago you were claiming most of the Christians here were "bigots".The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf you eat beans, it causes gas, which has to leave the body some way. Seems to operate in accordance to a logical biological and chemical process to me. So why isn't it rational?
ETA: and there's a non-biological device that can too!The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSetting your speculation on my motives aside, I have no idea how to make this simpler.
Dictionary definition of "rational" - "in accordance with the principles of reason or logic."
Example of "rational" - "I believe a thing is itself"
Example of "irrational" - "I believe a thing is not itself"
Example of "nonrational" - "I think I want a pizza."
The first is in accordance with (aligned with, based on) the fundamental principle of identity - accepted to be a universal, absolute, truth.
The second is not in accordance with (aligned on, based on) the fundamental principle of identity - it defies it.
The third has nothing to do with reason/logic whatsoever, it neither is aligned with a logical principle, or in defiance of one. It has nothing to do with logic.
A flower is not a "rational" object, AFAIK. It doesn't make choices based on Boolean operations, apply the law of identity or noncontradiction in a decision process, etc. It is also not irrational. It has essentially nothing to do with logic/reason, AFAIK. So it is nonrational.
If you know otherwise, by all means share.
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYour gastronomic system is operating according to the laws of physics alone, Sparko - not the laws of logic. They are not the same. Now if you can come up with a biological organ operating according to the laws of physics that can actually apply or use the laws of logic, then we might....wait....wait....I think there might BE such an organ...
ETA: and there's a non-biological device that can too!
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostOK you are talking about processes and I saw you and seer discussing OBJECTS. I think that was the disconnect. When you say a computer is rational, you are not talking about the physical box, but of the actions it goes through. That is why you don't see a flower as rational, (although it also operates through understandable and logical biological processes.)The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostA thought/belief may or may not be rational. If it is counter to the principles of reason/logic (I believe A is not equal to A), it is irrational. If it conforms to them (I believe A is equal to A), it is rational. If it is indifferent to them (I think that I'd like a cup of coffee) it is nonrational. A good fart, as far as I know, is nonrational. It has nothing to do with rationality.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostExcept your brain uses purely biological processes that operate according to the laws of physics.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd a computer operates purely on the laws of physics (electricity to be exact).
And that has nothing to do with what makes a thing rational, irrational, or nonrational.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostProcesses are executed by objects. A computer operates in according to principles of logic/reason. A person can operate according to principles of logic and reason. I have no idea how a flower could do so. In the abstract, a process can be rationally or irrationally organized. A flow chart, for example, where both outputs of a decision point are "yes" and there is no "no" sounds pretty irrational to me.
Why isn't DNA rational? It is a language written into a molecule that determines everything about an organism as much as a computer program tells a computer how to act.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seer View PostBut a thought is not different than a fart, they are both just biologically determined functions.
Seer, if your thoughts are no different than your farts, I now understand why you have so many problems following a logical argument...
Sorry...but you lobbed that one WAY up there....I just had to swing...
Originally posted by seer View PostAnd you labeling one rational and another not is too just a biologically determined function. Again it is turtles all the way down. I see no justification for your distinction.
For whatever reason, you are hung up on how the thing came to be, what its physical nature is (e.g., electrical, chemical, biological), whether or not there are other things with that nature that are or are not rational, and a whole lot of other things that have nothing to do with the definition of the term "rational."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - it is.
Yes, it does.
And that has nothing to do with what makes a thing rational, irrational, or nonrational.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostA flower executes processes too. Sunlight gets converted to energy through photosynthesis.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat is an entirely logical process, which you could diagram if you like, or program a computer to simulate. Why isn't that rational?
Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhy isn't DNA rational? It is a language written into a molecule that determines everything about an organism as much as a computer program tells a computer how to act.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by shunyadragon, 03-01-2024, 09:40 AM
|
172 responses
606 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
04-15-2024, 11:55 AM
|
Comment