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Thread: God's Desires

  1. #41
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, they show that God's desires will not ultimately be frustrated.


    Well, how is it that these verses do not make a general statement that all of God's desires will be fulfilled?

    PS 115:3 Our God is in heaven; all he pleases, he has done.
    PS 135:6 All that pleases the Lord, he has done, in the heavens and on the earth, in the seas and all their depths.
    ISA 46:10 "I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please."

    Blessings,
    Lee
    To me, your doing that "moving the goalposts" thing. To say that God "generally" gets what he desires and God specifically gets what he desires are two different animals. For instance, God always wanted the Nation of Israel to be a nation of Priests for Him to bless the nations of earth...that still hasn't happened, but, He did accomplish in a way, it through Jesus Christ.

    God says in Ezekiel 22:30-31 That He looked for someone to build up the wall and to stand in the gap so that he would not have to destroy Israel. But, concludes:
    30b but I found no one. 31 Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads, declares the Lord God.


    God clearly did not get what He desired here...someone to stand in the gap for Israel, allow them mercy... so He does what HAS to do.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  2. #42
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    There is a matter that needs resolution before "hell is a permanent fate in all cases" can be asserted. There is that whole "until he has repaid" thing that might prevent absolute certainty, but it would depend on whether it is possible to repay the debt. I am satisfied that it isn't possible, based on evaluation of scripture, and nothing advanced to date shows that can be possible. Nonetheless, I'm not ruling out the possibility that something somewhere might call my assessment into doubt.

    And of Course, LittleJoe does make a valid point when it comes to a general condition having specific exceptions. (which for this argument might work both ways.)
    Last edited by tabibito; 07-02-2019 at 09:06 PM.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  3. #43
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    There is a matter that needs resolution before "hell is a permanent fate in all cases" can be asserted. There is that whole "until he has repaid" thing that might prevent absolute certainty, but it would depend on whether it is possible to repay the debt. I am satisfied that it isn't possible, based on evaluation of scripture, and nothing advanced to date shows that can be possible. Nonetheless, I'm not ruling out the possibility that something somewhere might call my assessment into doubt.

    And of Course, LittleJoe does make a valid point when it comes to a general condition having specific exceptions. (which for this argument might work both ways.)
    Well the bible is pretty clear that hell is eternal punishment and that some people will end up there.


    Daniel 12:1-2

    Matthew 18:6-9

    Matthew 25:31-46

    2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

    Jude 7

    Revelation 14:9-11

    Revelation 20:10, 14-15

  4. #44
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    I'm not arguing otherwise. Pending something substantial, I do (as already stated) accept that there is no get out of hell card available after death.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  5. #45
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well the bible is pretty clear that hell is eternal punishment and that some people will end up there.


    Daniel 12:1-2

    Matthew 18:6-9

    Matthew 25:31-46

    2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

    Jude 7

    Revelation 14:9-11

    Revelation 20:10, 14-15
    I hesitate to go as far as you on this....But, I think this gets a bit away from the OP so, I'll refrain from commenting any further here. Maybe open a new thread for us to discuss it in?
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  6. #46
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    To me, your doing that "moving the goalposts" thing. To say that God "generally" gets what he desires and God specifically gets what he desires are two different animals. For instance, God always wanted the Nation of Israel to be a nation of Priests for Him to bless the nations of earth...that still hasn't happened, but, He did accomplish in a way, it through Jesus Christ.
    No, I meant by "a general statement" that we have a statement that is true in all circumstances, that God's desires are ultimately fulfilled.

    God says in Ezekiel 22:30-31 That He looked for someone to build up the wall and to stand in the gap so that he would not have to destroy Israel. But, concludes:
    30b but I found no one. 31 Thus I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; their way I have brought upon their heads, declares the Lord God.


    God clearly did not get what He desired here...someone to stand in the gap for Israel, allow them mercy... so He does what HAS to do.
    That's a good point, now I would reply that this is like Ezekiel 18:23. "And as the Lord took delight in doing you good and multiplying you, so the Lord will take delight in bringing ruin upon you and destroying you." That is, that God's desires are not being frustrated even when he turns to wrath.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Last edited by lee_merrill; 07-04-2019 at 07:26 PM.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  7. #47
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    We know that God explicitly commanded that murder and stealing, among many other things, not be done.

    We know that all those things God commanded not be done, ARE done.

    ISTM that any attempt to reconcile these undeniable facts is unprovable speculation that will never satisfy everyone.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  8. #48
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    We know that God explicitly commanded that murder and stealing, among many other things, not be done.

    We know that all those things God commanded not be done, ARE done.
    But what is the purpose of the law?

    "The Law came in so that the transgression would increase..." (Rom. 5:20)

    And then what is God's purpose?

    "... but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Rom. 5:2021)

    So God's purpose that people not sin will ultimately be fulfilled, if all may repent.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  9. #49
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    God desires that we don't sin. Yet we do.

  10. #50
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    God desires that we don't sin. Yet we do.
    Yet is sinning part of God's plan?

    "For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!" (Rom. 11:3233)

    So the answer may be complex, and beyond our thoughts and ways.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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