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Kids In Cages...

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    When they already have a sanctuary - you mean the death threats from the drug Lords in their country of origin?

    And you will persist in assuming these are irresponsible and selfish people with little or no regard for their chidren rather than desperate people who see no alternative?

    Why?

    Jim
    Pretty sure Mexico is NOT their country of origin. Mexico OFFERED sanctuary - actually an improvement of sorts from their normally rigidly protected southern border.

    The evidence shows economic migration, not political refugees. Starving, desperate people don't travel 2500 plus miles further than necessary to get the aid and sanctuary they need.

    Dragging children through dangerous desert rather than accepting Mexico's aid is not responsible behavior - they literally turned their backs on the alternative you say they don't have.

    Will you persist in ignoring evidence rather than admit you might be wrong?
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

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    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      That would be detainees, almost all here illegally.
      Yes, and whether we grant them asylum, or deport them, we should, while awaiting the process, treat them all like human beings, not like animals in private run for profit corporate prisons.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        Name a current Democrat party position being actively touted by any Democrat leader that doesn't result in less enforcement and therefore more open borders.
        Obama, remember him, the the democrat deporter and chief, who deported a record 400,000 undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants living in this country fell from 12.2 million down to 11.5 million under Obama, all without a wall. And as I said previously, there are laws on the books right now (against the hiring of undocumented immigrants) that if enforced would alleviate the border problem by a significant amount. Trump could enforce those laws right now if he were really serious about there being an overwhelming immigration problem. Put more resources toward the administrative process at the border instead of ignoring the issue and packing the for profit private prisons. Everyone wants an entry process that is fair, fast and humane and I don't know a single person who advocates for open borders, which is simply conservative, Trumpian rhetoric, to be used as a campaign issue.

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        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
          Obama, remember him, the the democrat deporter and chief, who deported a record 400,000 undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants living in this country fell from 12.2 million down to 11.5 million under Obama, all without a wall. And as I said previously, there are laws on the books right now (against the hiring of undocumented immigrants) that if enforced would alleviate the border problem by a significant amount. Trump could enforce those laws right now if he were really serious about there being an overwhelming immigration problem. Put more resources toward the administrative process at the border instead of ignoring the issue and packing the for profit private prisons. Everyone wants an entry process that is fair, fast and humane and I don't know a single person who advocates for open borders, which is simply conservative, Trumpian rhetoric, to be used as a campaign issue.
          Teal was asking about the current Democrat Party position not a previous democrat position.

          As for Obama he is also the president that the kids in cage happened under. Or have your leftist programmers coded ignorance into you about when that photo was taken; you know the one that is always posted to demonize Trump.That photo was taken in 2014, during Obama's administration. Stop being lazy and letting others do you thinking for you.

          So while Obama gets kudo's for his deportation policy he gets none for his detention Policy

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          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Yes, and whether we grant them asylum, or deport them, we should, while awaiting the process, treat them all like human beings, not like animals in private run for profit corporate prisons.
            1) They aren't political refugees so asylum is mostly out.
            2) Human beings who are detained for violating the law, no issue.
            3) Overwhelming facilities means some over crowding - but all the horror stories with evidence are 3 years old. Are there issues? Certainly. Are people mistreated? Show the evidence.
            4) The rest is diatribe.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Obama, remember him, the the democrat deporter and chief, who deported a record 400,000 undocumented immigrants. Undocumented immigrants living in this country fell from 12.2 million down to 11.5 million under Obama, all without a wall. And as I said previously, there are laws on the books right now (against the hiring of undocumented immigrants) that if enforced would alleviate the border problem by a significant amount. Trump could enforce those laws right now if he were really serious about there being an overwhelming immigration problem. Put more resources toward the administrative process at the border instead of ignoring the issue and packing the for profit private prisons. Everyone wants an entry process that is fair, fast and humane and I don't know a single person who advocates for open borders, which is simply conservative, Trumpian rhetoric, to be used as a campaign issue.
              Seriously, did you miss the Democrat debates?
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                1) They aren't political refugees so asylum is mostly out.
                2) Human beings who are detained for violating the law, no issue.
                3) Overwhelming facilities means some over crowding - but all the horror stories with evidence are 3 years old. Are there issues? Certainly. Are people mistreated? Show the evidence.
                4) The rest is diatribe.
                YOu won't get any evidence You will only JimL repeating what his leftist programmers have coded into him since he has never been taught how to think only what to think and is to lazy to think for himself.

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                • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  The detention centers aren't even run by the government, they're privately owned for-profit detention center?
                  I don't think so but looking into it.

                  EDIT:
                  Near as I can tell, the answer is 'no, but...'. ICE doesn't privatize detention but there is spill over into actual prisons and jails, including privately run prisons.
                  Last edited by Teallaura; 07-14-2019, 06:17 PM.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    Seriously, did you miss the Democrat debates?
                    Yes I did. Which candidate was it did you say who was advocating for open borders?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                      YOu won't get any evidence You will only JimL repeating what his leftist programmers have coded into him since he has never been taught how to think only what to think and is to lazy to think for himself.
                      Jeez RTT, try participating in a discussion once in a while. I mean it doesn't bother me in the least, but his constant retort of yours makes it look as if you are the programed one.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        1) They aren't political refugees so asylum is mostly out.
                        You don't know what they are Tea, that's why they are being detained.
                        2) Human beings who are detained for violating the law, no issue.
                        So what, we shouldn't be treating criminals, if that's how you want to think of desperate people, inhumanely.
                        3) Overwhelming facilities means some over crowding - but all the horror stories with evidence are 3 years old. Are there issues? Certainly. Are people mistreated? Show the evidence.
                        The overcrowding, the no showers, no tooth brushes, horrid food, sleeping on concrete in 95 degree heat, the no health care for the sick children, 6 who have now died, is mistreatment.
                        4) The rest is diatribe.
                        Must all be that "fake news" again.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                          You don't know what they are Tea, that's why they are being detained.
                          Yeah, we do. Also, it got worse.

                          So what, we shouldn't be treating criminals, if that's how you want to think of desperate people, inhumanely.
                          Desperation doesn't make it legal to cross he border without permission - and since they are safe in Mexico, there's no good argument for 'desperate'.

                          The overcrowding, the no showers, no tooth brushes, horrid food, sleeping on concrete in 95 degree heat, the no health care for the sick children, 6 who have now died, is mistreatment.
                          Except the no evidence part and that there were attempts to help those who died.

                          Must all be that "fake news" again.
                          Yep.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

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                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Bless your heart.
                            I'm not from the South, but I understand that sentiment.
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

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                            • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                              I'm not from the South, but I understand that sentiment.
                              I don't really care for the sentiment personally. At least, not how it's being used here. It taking something that's meant for good, something we should be doing for both friends and enemies, and is being used condescendingly. Makes me wince whenever I see a Christian using it in that way.

                              Comment


                              • This whole border issue has me a little torn. I absolutely empathize for the people trying to get in. I think it's so sad to see people so desperate, and I can't fault anyone for doing whatever they can to make their lives, and the lives of their families better. Also, I find the concept of borders at all a bit bizarre when I really think about it. These man-made imaginary demarcations are supposed to keep these people in, and these people out. Why? Because we say so. On the flip side, however, borders are a necessary evil for any nation to keep order. Every nation, even the most liberal of Europe's nations, strongly enforce border laws. There are real practical reasons for borders. My brother is in Border Patrol, and his view of circumstances on the ground floor are far different from how the media often paints things. He's found families in the desert, has held and cared for children, and been righteously angry at parents who've essentially abused their children trying to get them across the border. He gets angry at news that shows him and his fellow agents not caring for these people, when they do all they can within their power to make their stay comfortable while they're being processed. Feeding them, clothing them, giving them medical attention, and providing them cool comfortable places to sleep after long treks through the desert.

                                He's caught the same people over and over again...has even become friends with some of them because they attempt to cross so often they've become regulars. He's been in since the Bush administration, and has seen a massive influx of immigrants attempting to get into the nation because of the really real fear that this will be their last chance to get in before a wall goes up, and the road to the promised land will be closed off. He's dealt with countless people claiming asylum, people who do not remotely fit the qualifications for asylum, but are told to ask for it (by pro-illegal immigration groups IN THE US) because it ties hands up, costs resources, and in years past meant that, because of limited resources, their cases weren't read for months or years, they were very loosely detained, and it allowed seekers to eventually get lost in the system, and filter into the US never showing up when their court case was eventually called. He's actually dealt with a few repeat asylum seekers. People who've had their cases reviewed, turned back, and who attempted to cross over again, and when caught, again sought asylum.

                                It gets so frustrating reading the news, and then hearing how different things really are when I talk to my brother on the ground floor. One of the most frustrating things I see in headlines is supposedly how racist border patrol agents are in general. Like, the only reason someone would ever become an agent is because they hate Latinos. The truth of the matter, though, is that most of my brother's border patrolling co-workers and close friends are, themselves, Latino. You have to be relatively fluent in Spanish to even work the border patrol, and those who are here legally are often the most vocal voices against those who cross illegally. And the border patrol is doing real good. My brother has made a number of major drug busts, has dealt with all manner of evil and abusive coyotes (those who smuggle people across the border for profit) sex-traffickers, and the like. My brother is one of the most compassionate people I know. He too struggles with wanting to truly help people crossing the border, and realizing that there is a need for our borders. He has a conscience about this whole thing, and sincerely tries to help those who attempt to cross illegally where and when he can, and I don't think he's the exception to the rule.

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