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Thread: Kids In Cages...

  1. #311
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    ...Personally, I do not think the onus for the current pool of illegal immigrants should be placed 100% on the backs of the people in question. We, the U.S., have some accountability as well and should be taking responsibility for our part in the situation. That is why I advocate for a balanced immigration policy that factors in the responsibilities of all parties.
    The Democrats don't want a "balanced immigration policy" - they would prefer to keep this as a campaign issue.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. #312
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post


    Where has any measure been passed to allow non-citizens to vote?
    Aside from the aforementioned jurisdictions in Maryland, San Francisco also started registering illegals in July 2018 so that they can vote in local elections like those for school boards. When this started being discussed on conservative talk shows several of the so-called "fact checkers" dishonestly declared that the fact that non-citizens as well as illegal aliens were being allowed to vote was false. They were saying that because they weren't (yet) being allowed to vote in all elections they therefore weren't being allowed to vote.

    IIRC, Portland, Oregon has made similar moves although I don't know if they've been enacted.

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  3. #313
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Maryland city voted Tuesday night to enfranchise noncitizens, the latest in a growing effort to expand immigrant voting rights.

    IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA


    https://www.newsweek.com/immigrants-...america-664467
    Interesting. As far as I can tell, this is for local issues only, where noncitizens have issues. I do not see anything here about illegal citizens having this right. And I was surprised to find that this was actually the norm from 1776 to 1926, basically the first 150 years of our country's life.

    Maybe we should set aside the anti-immigrant sentiment and simply go back to our roots. After all, it seems to have been what the FF's intended, right?
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  4. #314
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Interesting. As far as I can tell, this is for local issues only, where noncitizens have issues. I do not see anything here about illegal citizens having this right. And I was surprised to find that this was actually the norm from 1776 to 1926, basically the first 150 years of our country's life.

    Maybe we should set aside the anti-immigrant sentiment and simply go back to our roots. After all, it seems to have been what the FF's intended, right?
    What do you mean the norm? I don't think there was a norm back then, I don't think we even had a defined idea of a citizen. But if I follow your logic we should let illegals vote in federal elections too...
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  5. #315
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What do you mean the norm? I don't think there was a norm back then, I don't think we even had a defined idea of a citizen. But if I follow your logic we should let illegals vote in federal elections too...
    The article says "noncitizens." How did you leap from "noncitizens" to "illegals?" Are you under the mistaken impression that every noncitizen within the U.S. is illegal?

    Someone may be here on an H1B visa for work purposes, and be here for several years, raising children in the process. I have a colleague who lived that exact scenario. I see no reason they should not be able to vote on issues related to schools and other things that directly impact their families. I'm not sure how I feel about them voting in state or national elections. I'd have to think about it.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  6. #316
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The article says "noncitizens." How did you leap from "noncitizens" to "illegals?" Are you under the mistaken impression that every noncitizen within the U.S. is illegal?

    Someone may be here on an H1B visa for work purposes, and be here for several years, raising children in the process. I have a colleague who lived that exact scenario. I see no reason they should not be able to vote on issues related to schools and other things that directly impact their families.
    Perhaps, in that case.

    I'm not sure how I feel about them voting in state or national elections. I'd have to think about it.
    For REAL?
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  7. #317
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The article says "noncitizens." How did you leap from "noncitizens" to "illegals?" Are you under the mistaken impression that every noncitizen within the U.S. is illegal?
    Do these cities actually check immigration status?

    Someone may be here on an H1B visa for work purposes, and be here for several years, raising children in the process. I have a colleague who lived that exact scenario. I see no reason they should not be able to vote on issues related to schools and other things that directly impact their families. I'm not sure how I feel about them voting in state or or national elections. I'd have to think about it.
    Why? National election can and do directly impact our lives.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

  8. #318
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Do these cities actually check immigration status?
    The article doesn't say. Do you have evidence they don't?

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Why? National election can and do directly impact our lives.
    Which is why I would have to think about it. The impact is less immediate than "what the local school is doing," and I don't have a firm position on the issue at this time.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  9. #319
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    And I think you are. Identifying people who are breaking the law as lawbreakers is simple factual identification. The raids are against people who have outstanding warrants for deportation. That's not dehumanizing them. It's enforcing the law. The fact that you are emotionalizing it doesn't make it an emotional issue.
    We were talking about the dehumanizing treatment of immigrants being held by the U.S. in the border prisons, and about those who defend that treatment.

  10. #320
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The Democrats don't want a "balanced immigration policy" - they would prefer to keep this as a campaign issue.
    You people really do live in a parallell universe, don't you? The campaign issue of immigration has been Trumps issue from the get go, and he is doing all he can to keep that issue afloat.

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