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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    Hard to believe we even have to worry ourselves about it.
    I do hope our nation comes to its senses. We'll see...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Venezuela ought to be a utopia for such folks. Their policies in action.
      And Russia ought to be a utopia for you Trumpsters. The autocrats policies in action.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        What makes you think the decision has anything to do with "showing them?"
        It's just nutty that you would let the peaceful transfer of power drive you from this country. I was apprehensive when Obama was elected, but locally - pretty much nothing changed. The stun still rose, the birds still sang, my barber still told me bad jokes, my neighbors still came over for BBQ..... Live goes on.

        But, hey, you can be just as verbose and obtuse on Tweb from some other country as you can from here, so...
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by seer View Post
          Substantiate how? With actual empirical, historical evidence from Communist countries?
          With actual evidence, Seer. You're making claims for which the evidence simply does not exist.

          Originally posted by seer View Post
          What is obvious is that the ideology can not sustain itself without a great deal of force.
          No - what is obvious is that the ideology of communism has not been sustained without a great deal of force. Not that it can not. We have never seen a democracy elect to take a completely communistic form of economics and law. We have seen many countries do so for socialism in general (of which communism is a subset) to one degree or another, with significant success. As with so many things - socialism and communism have places where they have succeeded and are a good fit.

          Personally, I don't want a nation that operates 100% of the communistic model. I am more than happy with communism in isolated, self-selected contexts. I am actually fine with socialistic approaches to some social problems (e.g., healthcare, highway systems, defense/protection, etc.). I prefer either of them to be in the context of a democracy or representative democracy.
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            And Russia ought to be a utopia for you Trumpsters. The autocrats policies in action.
            It never ceases to amaze me how much stupid you can pack in such short posts.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              Ironically very un-American of him. He sounded more sympathetic to a Communist regime than a democratically elected second term of a guy who, while acting like a spoiled child most of the time, hasn't gotten us into any new wars, hasn't been impeached, and is still hedged by the Constitution's checks and balances. Ya gotta wonder how much someone truly cares about their nation if their willing to split when the politics of the day are ruffling their feathers. The people are the nation, and he's essentially saying that if Trump is reelected, he will no longer identify with the American people and their principles, and is looking for people he can identify with. If there's a proper definition of "unAmerican" it's gotta be that.

              There's plenty of good reason to move to another country. This isn't really one of them. I think assuming Trump wins, it's likely that long term it'll go very badly for Conservatives. I believe people will look back on this presidency as one they'll not want to repeat, and we'll see a dramatic swing to the left the prevents it from ever coming to fruition. That's one of the (many) reasons I'm anti-Trump. The right might get what they want short term, but I think it's going to cost them massively down the road.
              Agreed, and I have lived through numerous versions of POTUS I did not like. It has never even entered my mind to escape this country based on the peaceful transfer of power to somebody I opposed.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                Hard to believe we even have to worry ourselves about it.
                Small minded people tend to live in fear.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  It's just nutty that you would let the peaceful transfer of power drive you from this country. I was apprehensive when Obama was elected, but locally - pretty much nothing changed. The stun still rose, the birds still sang, my barber still told me bad jokes, my neighbors still came over for BBQ..... Live goes on.

                  But, hey, you can be just as verbose and obtuse on Tweb from some other country as you can from here, so...
                  Pffft. carpe is no different than the legion of Hollyweird celebutards, who, every four years, vow to leave the country if a Republican is elected president but always end up staying.

                  If only we could hold all of them to their word the national average IQ would rise at least 3 points.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seer View Post
                    Ouch...
                    Ouch?

                    Adrift has pretty much captured my sentiment accurately, except for the "unamerican" part. If Trump is re-elected, it will signal to me that the gap between my own principles and values and those of the majority of my fellow Americans is simply too wide to be tolerated. The unamerican thing would be to deny that they have the right to those views and to whomever they want to elect - or to decide "this country should run my way - not their way." Looking around myself and saying, "this is no longer a country that brings me pride and no longer a country that reflects my values/principles" and look for a place that does is not "unamerican." It's a free, personal choice that is very much what gave rise to "American independence" to being with.

                    I find it a better approach than labeling those who disagree with me "unamerican" and "America Haters" and noting that it is "easy to hate a hater." The sad thing is, it IS easy to hate a hater. I suspect that is why great men like Jesus of Nazareth, Nelson Mandela, MLK, and Gandhi suggested that the harder course was the better course: to resist responding to hatred with hatred and instead responding with kindness and love.

                    As I write that, I recognize that I have a real problem extending that concept to Trump. The man so personifies the things I find repugnant, I cannot seem to get over that "love your enemy" bar with him. I don't know if I will ever have that kind of strength...
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      The list goes on. The nation some of us want has been developing for decades...but the right doesn't like it. Only THEIR vision of America is "valid" and everyone who doesn't like "their vision" is "unamerican" and "should leave." Anyone who doesn't share their vision of America is an "America hater."
                      Good for thee but not for me...

                      Pelosi, in veiled swipe at Omar, says anti-Semitism is 'un-American'

                      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...is-un-american

                      Nancy Pelosi's op-ed in USA Today, in which she calls the folks who have drowned out town halls "un-American," has drawn just the reaction you'd expect from the top House Republican.

                      https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-co...ensible-020545


                      Madeleine Albright: Trump’s behavior around Putin was un-American, outrageous

                      https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1393437137467169

                      CNN: Trump’s Shouting at Reporters Is ‘Disturbingly Un-American’

                      https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-tr...ly-un-american

                      Obama’s Powerful Message: Donald Trump Is Un-American


                      https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-...is-un-american

                      Alyssa Milano Blasts Trump Supporters as ‘More Unamerican’ Than DREAMers

                      https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ican-dreamers/
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        Good for thee but not for me...
                        As you noted it is fine and dandy when the left does it but is hurtful and hateful when the right does it.

                        Par for the course.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          It's just nutty that you would let the peaceful transfer of power drive you from this country.
                          You are focused on the peaceful transfer of power and (presumably) Trump. I don't think yuo are hearing what I am actually saying.

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          I was apprehensive when Obama was elected, but locally - pretty much nothing changed. The stun still rose, the birds still sang, my barber still told me bad jokes, my neighbors still came over for BBQ..... Live goes on.
                          Yes...life has gone on. But I woke up the other day to the president of my country fostering (with lies) and delighting in a "send her back" chant aimed at another U.S. citizen and an elected member of our legislature. I understand Trump is a morally compromised human being, so it is expected. What really struck me was the spontaneous nature of that chant (it arose from the attendees - it was not started by Trump) and the minimal response to it (or outright defense of it) from such a huge swath of our country. It was not Trump that made me think, "it may be time to leave," it was those faces in that stadium...and the words of all of those after the fact who defended it.

                          My decision is not rooted in who Trump is per se - it is rooted in what it says about the people of our country if we can, with open eyes, give that same man that same office a second time.

                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          But, hey, you can be just as verbose and obtuse on Tweb from some other country as you can from here, so...
                          I can indeed...but I suspect not...
                          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            Ouch?

                            Adrift has pretty much captured my sentiment accurately, except for the "unamerican" part. If Trump is re-elected, it will signal to me that the gap between my own principles and values and those of the majority of my fellow Americans is simply too wide to be tolerated....
                            So, basically, you're intolerant.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by seer View Post
                              Good for thee but not for me...
                              What makes you think I have defended any of these things...?
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                                Ouch?

                                Adrift has pretty much captured my sentiment accurately, except for the "unamerican" part. If Trump is re-elected, it will signal to me that the gap between my own principles and values and those of the majority of my fellow Americans is simply too wide to be tolerated.
                                So if the majority doesn't believe as you, you pick up your toys and leave? But you were recently telling me you would be OK with the majority settling on Communism...
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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