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  1. #511
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Hard to believe we even have to worry ourselves about it.
    I do hope our nation comes to its senses. We'll see...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  2. #512
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Venezuela ought to be a utopia for such folks. Their policies in action.
    And Russia ought to be a utopia for you Trumpsters. The autocrats policies in action.

  3. #513
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    What makes you think the decision has anything to do with "showing them?"
    It's just nutty that you would let the peaceful transfer of power drive you from this country. I was apprehensive when Obama was elected, but locally - pretty much nothing changed. The stun still rose, the birds still sang, my barber still told me bad jokes, my neighbors still came over for BBQ..... Live goes on.

    But, hey, you can be just as verbose and obtuse on Tweb from some other country as you can from here, so...
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  4. #514
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Substantiate how? With actual empirical, historical evidence from Communist countries?
    With actual evidence, Seer. You're making claims for which the evidence simply does not exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    What is obvious is that the ideology can not sustain itself without a great deal of force.
    No - what is obvious is that the ideology of communism has not been sustained without a great deal of force. Not that it can not. We have never seen a democracy elect to take a completely communistic form of economics and law. We have seen many countries do so for socialism in general (of which communism is a subset) to one degree or another, with significant success. As with so many things - socialism and communism have places where they have succeeded and are a good fit.

    Personally, I don't want a nation that operates 100% of the communistic model. I am more than happy with communism in isolated, self-selected contexts. I am actually fine with socialistic approaches to some social problems (e.g., healthcare, highway systems, defense/protection, etc.). I prefer either of them to be in the context of a democracy or representative democracy.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  5. #515
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    And Russia ought to be a utopia for you Trumpsters. The autocrats policies in action.
    It never ceases to amaze me how much stupid you can pack in such short posts.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  6. Amen One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  7. #516
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Ironically very un-American of him. He sounded more sympathetic to a Communist regime than a democratically elected second term of a guy who, while acting like a spoiled child most of the time, hasn't gotten us into any new wars, hasn't been impeached, and is still hedged by the Constitution's checks and balances. Ya gotta wonder how much someone truly cares about their nation if their willing to split when the politics of the day are ruffling their feathers. The people are the nation, and he's essentially saying that if Trump is reelected, he will no longer identify with the American people and their principles, and is looking for people he can identify with. If there's a proper definition of "unAmerican" it's gotta be that.

    There's plenty of good reason to move to another country. This isn't really one of them. I think assuming Trump wins, it's likely that long term it'll go very badly for Conservatives. I believe people will look back on this presidency as one they'll not want to repeat, and we'll see a dramatic swing to the left the prevents it from ever coming to fruition. That's one of the (many) reasons I'm anti-Trump. The right might get what they want short term, but I think it's going to cost them massively down the road.
    Agreed, and I have lived through numerous versions of POTUS I did not like. It has never even entered my mind to escape this country based on the peaceful transfer of power to somebody I opposed.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  8. Amen Adrift, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  9. #517
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Hard to believe we even have to worry ourselves about it.
    Small minded people tend to live in fear.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #518
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    It's just nutty that you would let the peaceful transfer of power drive you from this country. I was apprehensive when Obama was elected, but locally - pretty much nothing changed. The stun still rose, the birds still sang, my barber still told me bad jokes, my neighbors still came over for BBQ..... Live goes on.

    But, hey, you can be just as verbose and obtuse on Tweb from some other country as you can from here, so...
    Pffft. carpe is no different than the legion of Hollyweird celebutards, who, every four years, vow to leave the country if a Republican is elected president but always end up staying.

    If only we could hold all of them to their word the national average IQ would rise at least 3 points.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  11. #519
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Ouch...
    Ouch?

    Adrift has pretty much captured my sentiment accurately, except for the "unamerican" part. If Trump is re-elected, it will signal to me that the gap between my own principles and values and those of the majority of my fellow Americans is simply too wide to be tolerated. The unamerican thing would be to deny that they have the right to those views and to whomever they want to elect - or to decide "this country should run my way - not their way." Looking around myself and saying, "this is no longer a country that brings me pride and no longer a country that reflects my values/principles" and look for a place that does is not "unamerican." It's a free, personal choice that is very much what gave rise to "American independence" to being with.

    I find it a better approach than labeling those who disagree with me "unamerican" and "America Haters" and noting that it is "easy to hate a hater." The sad thing is, it IS easy to hate a hater. I suspect that is why great men like Jesus of Nazareth, Nelson Mandela, MLK, and Gandhi suggested that the harder course was the better course: to resist responding to hatred with hatred and instead responding with kindness and love.

    As I write that, I recognize that I have a real problem extending that concept to Trump. The man so personifies the things I find repugnant, I cannot seem to get over that "love your enemy" bar with him. I don't know if I will ever have that kind of strength...
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  12. #520
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    The list goes on. The nation some of us want has been developing for decades...but the right doesn't like it. Only THEIR vision of America is "valid" and everyone who doesn't like "their vision" is "unamerican" and "should leave." Anyone who doesn't share their vision of America is an "America hater."
    Good for thee but not for me...

    Pelosi, in veiled swipe at Omar, says anti-Semitism is 'un-American'

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pel...is-un-american

    Nancy Pelosi's op-ed in USA Today, in which she calls the folks who have drowned out town halls "un-American," has drawn just the reaction you'd expect from the top House Republican.

    https://www.politico.com/blogs/on-co...ensible-020545


    Madeleine Albright: Trump’s behavior around Putin was un-American, outrageous

    https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1393437137467169

    CNN: Trump’s Shouting at Reporters Is ‘Disturbingly Un-American’

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-tr...ly-un-american

    Obama’s Powerful Message: Donald Trump Is Un-American


    https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-...is-un-american

    Alyssa Milano Blasts Trump Supporters as ‘More Unamerican’ Than DREAMers

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ican-dreamers/
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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