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Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostAre the experts that seer referenced not actually authorities or are not authorities on the subject on which they are being cited?
That was my point. If someone wants to put forward the arguments an expert has made and argue their merits, they should do so. If the argument is, "who are you to disagree with the experts?" then my response will be, "a person with a mind and the ability to read and understand." Argue the merits - not the person.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostFair enough. I jumped to the conclusion you were responding to my exchange. My bad.
Follow-through. If there is none - it will be the same.
Democrats would oppose most of that so I don't see it as viable. And yes, Republicans will also oppose parts - which makes it worse."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI think the Democrat's slogan is "Sure. We make the laws. But we don't want you to enforce them."
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostFair enough.
Yup.
Democrats would oppose most of that so I don't see it as viable. And yes, Republicans will also oppose parts - which makes it worse.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Walls are pretty easy to defeat. I know of gated communities in South Africa, where the residents protect themselves from the criminal elements of society by hiding behind walls
8ft wall with another 6ft of razor wire and electrified fencing (with the level set to "knock out the TRex").
It gets defeated by ladders and thick rubber mats.....
(just an observation, no real suggestions for you)Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo, first, I didn't say "fencing cannot work." If a discussion is to be had, it might be best if the discussion is actually related to what I have said...just a thought.
What I did say was that Trump's wall is not going to solve the immigration problem, and cannot even be reasonably used for much of the southern border (i.e., along the length of the Rio Grande), for the reasons I cited, which are: a) there is no place build it that does not produce serious negative consequences (isolation from the river and/or white-elephant maintenance costs, emminent domain issues, etc.), b) it doesn't stop/address the asylum issue, and c) there are swaths of the border where wall cannot be built because it is reservation land. Where it can be deployed usefully, it should be, but as best I can tell many (most?) of those areas have already been built up and simply need repair/maintenance (i.e., in/near major cities and easy points of crossing). There are other tools that could/should be used to address the immigration issue. I've listed several of them in previous posts:
1) Address our historical involvement in the countries where much of this exodus is occurring
2) Create programs to enhance quality of living in those same countries
3) Bolster immigration resources to process asylum claims quickly (1-2 weeks max)
4) Supplement the wall as necessary and focus heavily on detection technology
5) Adjust immigration quotas to align with employment needs/opportunities
6) Create a simple process for seasonal workers (i.e., the Delta "Clear" model)
7) Implement an arduous path to citizenship for existing undocumented immigrants
8) Implement a path to citizenship for DACA people
9) Adopt a zero-tolerance policy for all future illegal immigrants of any kind
10) Adopt a zero tolerance policy for any current immigrant that runs afoul of the law for anything more than a misdemeanor.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostMy summary wasn't too far off regarding your feelings on the wall. You seem to think no solution is somehow preferable to an imperfect one.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostWalls are pretty easy to defeat. I know of gated communities in South Africa, where the residents protect themselves from the criminal elements of society by hiding behind walls
8ft wall with another 6ft of razor wire and electrified fencing (with the level set to "knock out the TRex").
It gets defeated by ladders and thick rubber mats.....
(just an observation, no real suggestions for you)Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYour question appears to focus on the informal aspect of the fallacy. From your post: "Appeals to authority are always deductively fallacious; even a legitimate authority speaking on his area of expertise may affirm a falsehood, so no testimony of any authority is guaranteed to be true."
That was my point. If someone wants to put forward the arguments an expert has made and argue their merits, they should do so. If the argument is, "who are you to disagree with the experts?" then my response will be, "a person with a mind and the ability to read and understand." Argue the merits - not the person.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostUmm...no. And continually repeating this mantra won't make it true.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostWalls are pretty easy to defeat. I know of gated communities in South Africa, where the residents protect themselves from the criminal elements of society by hiding behind walls
8ft wall with another 6ft of razor wire and electrified fencing (with the level set to "knock out the TRex").
It gets defeated by ladders and thick rubber mats.....
(just an observation, no real suggestions for you)
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