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Thread: Kids In Cages...

  1. #171
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtfloor View Post
    That’s because I don’t troll...
    Oh, that was subtle. I almost missed it.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  2. #172
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    They aren't getting harsh treatment. That's a liberal lie.

    -----------
    According to the media and firebrand leftists like Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY), the migrant detention centers at the U.S. southern border are deplorable "concentration camps" with some of the worst living conditions imaginable. But several Latino pastors who visited the facilities have refuted that claim and extolled the federal agents for their efforts in keeping conditions there humane.

    "Rev. Samuel Rodriguez was 'full of indignation' when he saw the reports and heard from politicians about the deplorable and inhumane conditions for illegal immigrants at an El Paso County, Texas migrant detention center," reports Fox News. "But what he saw at the same facility toured by Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y. with a group of pastors was 'drastically different.'"

    As the president of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, Rodriguez has advised Presidents Bush, Obama, and Trump on immigration before. In a press briefing on Monday, he refuted the claims that detained immigrants are being mistreated after seeing the situation firsthand.

    "I read the reports, saw the news clips. I just wanted to see what was actually happening in order to better enable our efforts to find a fair and a just solution to our broken immigration system," Rodriguez said. "To my surprise, I saw something drastically different from the stories I’ve been hearing in our national discourse. Even as a veteran of immigration advocacy in the U.S., I was shocked at the misinformation of the crisis at the border."

    "We found no soiled diapers, no deplorable conditions, and no lack of basic necessities," Rodriguez declared.
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/49089...-not-paul-bois
    Well, even Mike Pence seems to admit that things are not always like they should be:

    A reporter traveling with Pence described a horrendous stench in the facility and said that nearly 400 men were housed in sweltering cages so crowded it would have been impossible for all of them to lie down. Some of the detainees shouted to reporters that they had been held 40 days or longer and complained that they were hungry.

    “This is tough stuff,” Pence said at a news conference later.

    “I was not surprised by what I saw,” he said. “I knew we’d see a system that was overwhelmed.” https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ty/1702331001/
    This statement should be read knowing how low he sets the standard:

    A reporter traveling with Pence described seeing detainees lying on kindergarten-like napping mats on the floor, covered with a thin tinfoil-like blanket. In one room, the intake facility, a crowd that appeared to be more than 100 people sat on benches. Most appeared dirty, and officials said they were waiting for showers and had been brought in earlier Friday. Some of the children were crying and sleeping.

    Regardless, “what we saw today is a facility that is providing care that every American would be proud of,” Pence said later at a roundtable discussion that included Border Patrol officials and Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee. https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...ty/1702331001/
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  3. #173
    tWebber firstfloor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Oh, that was subtle. I almost missed it.
    I see my role here as something like an auditor of souls. If you think I am trolling you, it probably means that you are failing your audit.
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.” ― Anne Lamott
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell

  4. #174
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I think it is because the democrats have an agenda. And they play it to the hilt. They were just caught again a few days ago using photos from 2014 in some tweets. They know better but don't care. They have a story they want to sell and they will do whatever it takes to sell it.

    That is my opinion anyway. I know you will take it with a grain of salt. But I trust what hispanic pastors say over what congressmen and women are saying, because I don't think the pastors (many who are hispanic themselves) have any agenda other than the well being of the people in the camps.
    I would tend to agree that a hispanic pastor that has dedicated his life to treating and caring for immigrants would be very unlikely to lie about what he saw. The disparity could be lying on the AOC party side, or it could be deception/oversight on the part of the facility (e.g. after the AOC report they got reamed by their supervisory staff and cleaned things up)

    There are seemingly a lot of first hand reports from the immigrants themselves that are consistent with the AOC side of things. My guess is only exit interviews and surprise inspections by a completely independent group will give us a clear picture of the truth.

    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  5. #175
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Then go to the border and help them legally. There is nothing in the Bible that compels a nation to ignore its own security and well-being for the sake of "charity". Even Israel was instructed to put conquered nations to the sword because Israel lacked the means to care for a sudden influx of people without risking its own survival (among other reasons).

    If we were to allow millions of "refugees" to freely pour across the border and disappear into the country, it wouldn't take long before America's quality of life began to plummet. It's like the difference between your church running a food pantry, and opening its front doors and letting anybody off the street come into the building without restriction. How long do you think it would take before even the nicest church facility became a slum?
    So where is the faith, and where is the hope and the love????
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  6. #176
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    So where is the faith, and where is the hope and the love????
    It's there when I deliver a box of food to a group of homeless men on the corner. Or buy a meal for someone who tells me they're hungry. It doesn't require that I open the doors of my house and allow anybody to have unrestricted access to my belongings and family.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. Amen Raphael amen'd this post.
  8. #177
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's there when I deliver a box of food to a group of homeless men on the corner. Or buy a meal for someone who tells me they're hungry. It doesn't require that I open the doors of my house and allow anybody to have unrestricted access to my belongings and family.
    Who suggested you should open the doors to your house? Straw man or what?

    While the actions you describe above are good I must admit I have trouble finding the right words when Christians start to talk about the sword rather than the love in a situation when children are in cages and people are in desperate situations.

  9. #178
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    Who suggested you should open the doors to your house?
    That's effectively what open border liberals are asking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuckles View Post
    While the actions you describe above are good I must admit I have trouble finding the right words when Christians start to talk about the sword rather than the love in a situation when children are in cages and people are in desperate situations.
    It's because the situation is more complex and nuanced than you allow for with your simplistic black and white moral thinking.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. Amen RumTumTugger, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  11. #179
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    That's effectively what open border liberals are asking for.
    So it was a straw man. We are not discussing whether boarders should be open or not. We are discussing how you treat actual human beings when they arrive at the boarder. Putting children in cages is not morally justifiable and you should know so. You can be opposed to open boarders and still find prisoning of children to be completely unjustifiable. There is no contradiction (which, of course, you already knew).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It's because the situation is more complex and nuanced than you allow for with your simplistic black and white moral thinking.
    In what way is my thinking simplistic? And talking about the sword when children are in cages is somehow a more sofisticated moral thinking?

    I seem to remember someone who made some very simple guidelines on how human beings should treat each other. You may actually know him.
    "This is why in my debates with atheists and agnostics I always try to treat them with charity and civility and not engage in name-calling or insults or even just interruptions. I think that is uncivil discourse." - Dr. William Lane Craig.

  12. #180
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    ACK!!!! Charles wants to open BOARDERS!!! HIDE THE CUTLERY!!!!!!






    Sorry, couldn't resist...

  13. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.

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