Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Kids In Cages...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I'm not demonizing anybody, ya big goof, I'm asking QUESTIONS.
    It’s classic deflection, you are put into defensive mode so they can cover up the fact the goal is to offset your vote with a compliant voter from south of the boarder, so their opposition becomes irrelevant.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      And I think you are. Identifying people who are breaking the law as lawbreakers is simple factual identification.
      Contrary to popular belief, entering the U.S. at any point along its border and seeking asylum is not illegal, so lumping asylum seekers in with "illegal immigrants" is simply more "us versus them" language designed to separate and dehumanize.

      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
      The raids are against people who have outstanding warrants for deportation. That's not dehumanizing them. It's enforcing the law. The fact that you are emotionalizing it doesn't make it an emotional issue.
      The raids are targeted to those people, but every attempt to get clarification as to whether other immigrants encountered in the process would likewise be deported has resulted in silence.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
        I like how liberals are busy demonizing their opposition so they can cover up the fact the goal is to bring in a new liberal voter to make their opposition irrelevant.
        So, by implication, you are arguing that new immigrants should not be admitted or allowed to become citizens because they might vote democratic?
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Contrary to popular belief, entering the U.S. at any point along its border and seeking asylum is not illegal, so lumping asylum seekers in with "illegal immigrants" is simply more "us versus them" language designed to separate and dehumanize.

          That's not true. As soon as they cross the border while not at a point of entry, they have broken the law.



          The raids are targeted to those people, but every attempt to get clarification as to whether other immigrants encountered in the process would likewise be deported has resulted in silence.
          If they are here illegally too,
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            So, by implication, you are arguing that new immigrants should not be admitted or allowed to become citizens because they might vote democratic?
            I’m saying that democrats want to ignore laws so they can offset votes for their opponents and make America outside the large cities irrelevant. Why else do they flat out lie about what is going on, want laws ignored, pass measures to allow them to vote, are against voter ID laws, and we’re angry when Trump decided to ship them to their districts and cities?
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              That's not true. As soon as they cross the border while not at a point of entry, they have broken the law.
              Actually - no. While it is true that the preferred methods for requesting asylum are either to do so at a U.S. embassy abroad, do so in writing from abroad, or do so at a legal point of entry, U.S. law and international treaty commitments guarantee refugees an avenue to seek asylum regardless of how they entered the country.​ If you enter at a non-port of entry and do not immediately surrender to the border patrols, then you have entered illegally. If you cross the boarder and immediately seek out a border patrol and request asylum, you have not by law and by treaty.

              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              If they are here illegally too,
              This one I will leave to you. Personally, I do not think the onus for the current pool of illegal immigrants should be placed 100% on the backs of the people in question. We, the U.S., have some accountability as well and should be taking responsibility for our part in the situation. That is why I advocate for a balanced immigration policy that factors in the responsibilities of all parties.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                I’m saying that democrats want to ignore laws so they can offset votes for their opponents and make America outside the large cities irrelevant. Why else do they flat out lie about what is going on, want laws ignored, pass measures to allow them to vote, are against voter ID laws, and we’re angry when Trump decided to ship them to their districts and cities?
                So what lies have they told?
                What laws are being ignored?
                Where has any measure been passed to allow non-citizens to vote?

                VoterID laws are resisted because they attempt to solve a problem that has not been shown to exist, and they make voting by legal citizens harder. The right claims the left is trying to "beef up their voting block." The left claims the right is trying to make it harder for legal citizens who are likely to vote Democratic to vote at all. If either is true, it is reprehensible.

                I was not happy with the "ship them to their districts and cities" policy simply because of the unnecessary cost involved. My position on what should be happening at the border is a simple one: beef up the resources to handle asylum/immigration claims quickly and immediately deport those who do not qualify. In time, it will become clear that bogus claims will simply not get past the border and the rate of arrival will adjust accordingly. Requiring asylum seekers to request asylum from the first "safe" country is also a good idea - as is enabling embassies abroad to handle a greater number of requests.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  Where has any measure been passed to allow non-citizens to vote?
                  Maryland city voted Tuesday night to enfranchise noncitizens, the latest in a growing effort to expand immigrant voting rights.

                  IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA


                  https://www.newsweek.com/immigrants-...america-664467
                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • I have never been against voter ID laws in general, but I believe voter ID laws are unjust if every measure to allow to vote hasn't been taken. This includes such measures as voting by mail.

                    Any law that makes it artificially difficult to acquire the means of voting, or that systematically target certain demographics, are indefensible. They will only be defended if they benefit the party in power. Like gerrymandering, which conservatives in the US are uneasy about, but don't really do anything about because they stand to benefit from it.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by seer View Post
                      Maryland city voted Tuesday night to enfranchise noncitizens, the latest in a growing effort to expand immigrant voting rights.

                      IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA


                      https://www.newsweek.com/immigrants-...america-664467
                      Several towns and cities in Maryland have started allowing non-citizens to vote in municipal elections since 2017

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        ...Personally, I do not think the onus for the current pool of illegal immigrants should be placed 100% on the backs of the people in question. We, the U.S., have some accountability as well and should be taking responsibility for our part in the situation. That is why I advocate for a balanced immigration policy that factors in the responsibilities of all parties.
                        The Democrats don't want a "balanced immigration policy" - they would prefer to keep this as a campaign issue.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post


                          Where has any measure been passed to allow non-citizens to vote?
                          Aside from the aforementioned jurisdictions in Maryland, San Francisco also started registering illegals in July 2018 so that they can vote in local elections like those for school boards. When this started being discussed on conservative talk shows several of the so-called "fact checkers" dishonestly declared that the fact that non-citizens as well as illegal aliens were being allowed to vote was false. They were saying that because they weren't (yet) being allowed to vote in all elections they therefore weren't being allowed to vote.

                          IIRC, Portland, Oregon has made similar moves although I don't know if they've been enacted.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by seer View Post
                            Maryland city voted Tuesday night to enfranchise noncitizens, the latest in a growing effort to expand immigrant voting rights.

                            IMMIGRANTS ARE GETTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN CITIES ACROSS AMERICA


                            https://www.newsweek.com/immigrants-...america-664467
                            Interesting. As far as I can tell, this is for local issues only, where noncitizens have issues. I do not see anything here about illegal citizens having this right. And I was surprised to find that this was actually the norm from 1776 to 1926, basically the first 150 years of our country's life.

                            Maybe we should set aside the anti-immigrant sentiment and simply go back to our roots. After all, it seems to have been what the FF's intended, right?
                            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                              Interesting. As far as I can tell, this is for local issues only, where noncitizens have issues. I do not see anything here about illegal citizens having this right. And I was surprised to find that this was actually the norm from 1776 to 1926, basically the first 150 years of our country's life.

                              Maybe we should set aside the anti-immigrant sentiment and simply go back to our roots. After all, it seems to have been what the FF's intended, right?
                              What do you mean the norm? I don't think there was a norm back then, I don't think we even had a defined idea of a citizen. But if I follow your logic we should let illegals vote in federal elections too...
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seer View Post
                                What do you mean the norm? I don't think there was a norm back then, I don't think we even had a defined idea of a citizen. But if I follow your logic we should let illegals vote in federal elections too...
                                The article says "noncitizens." How did you leap from "noncitizens" to "illegals?" Are you under the mistaken impression that every noncitizen within the U.S. is illegal?

                                Someone may be here on an H1B visa for work purposes, and be here for several years, raising children in the process. I have a colleague who lived that exact scenario. I see no reason they should not be able to vote on issues related to schools and other things that directly impact their families. I'm not sure how I feel about them voting in state or national elections. I'd have to think about it.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                7 responses
                                65 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                251 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                108 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                194 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                338 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X