Kids In Cages...

[Terraceth]

Really? What exactly would you point to?

I was referring to the Panama Canal, which came about entirely due to massive US intervention. Not counting the Caribbean, Panama has the highest GDP per capita of Central America and the second highest of Central and South America (narrowly edged out by Chile). A major reason for that is the Panama Canal.

I was also being somewhat facetious, given how long ago that was.

[carpedm9587]

so back to what I said earlier, we need to fix our problems at home and then help others.

ANd we don't need to choose "either/or." We're the wealthiest nation on earth. We can do both. We will do neither, so long as we keep electing people who only toe the party line.

[carpedm9587]

The rest of the article is typical playing with numbers to make them say what the writer of the article wants them to say. The actual figures from the Justice Dept are the ones to pay attention to. They are the ones dealing with the actual hearings and know who shows up and who doesn't.

And you saying "it's impossible to know..." is just your usual handwaving away facts you don't like.

Most of the figures come from one U.S. department or another, Sparko. The 11% comes from the justice department as well. The 90% from ICE. All of them include or omit certain information. For the 44% number, for example, "The Justice Department reports no-show statistics based on 'initial case completions,' a metric that doesn’t count some migrants who show up for court but have their cases postponed or who don’t get a resolution."

Read the article...

[Teallaura]

ANd we don't need to choose "either/or." We're the wealthiest nation on earth. We can do both. We will do neither, so long as we keep electing people who only toe the party line.

Yet every time someone offers an alternative to open borders, you act like they aren't willing to do anything.

[carpedm9587]

We already apologized - Obama made a thing of apologizing to the entire world. Cold War ended nearly thirty years ago - what, exactly, were they doing when we didn't take a major FP interest in them? As much as you want to make all of the world's ills America's fault, that simply isn't reality. And even if it were, providing a political pressure escape valve only worsens, not improves, matters.

Since I did not say "all the worlds ills are America's fault," you are engaging in hyperbole that is irrelevant to the points I have actually made. As for the rest, it doesn't really address my points.

[carpedm9587]

Straw man.

Basically...

[carpedm9587]

Our meddling in Panama, at least, seems to have helped out the country quite a bit.

There have been successes (though I am not sure Panama is one of them...). I never said there were not. There have also been abysmal failures, most of which we simply brush past without any sense of responsibility or ownership. It was to the latter I was referring.

[carpedm9587]

Yet every time someone offers an alternative to open borders, you act like they aren't willing to do anything.

Please point to a single place where I have done what you are saying...

You and Sparko seem intent on adding meaning to posts that I did not put there, and then doggedly staying with your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what I have actually said. I have to wonder why...

[Teallaura]

Since I did not say "all the worlds ills are America's fault," you are engaging in hyperbole that is irrelevant to the points I have actually made. As for the rest, it doesn't really address my points.

I addressed your apology point specifically - and we'd already hit the others. I specified the time frame I did for a reason - and you ignored it.

[Cow Poke]

You and Sparko seem intent on adding meaning to posts that I did not put there...

[Teallaura]

Please point to a single place where I have done what you are saying...

You and Sparko seem intent on adding meaning to posts that I did not put there, and then doggedly staying with your misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what I have actually said. I have to wonder why...

Probably because you assume the worst about us and then hand wave away any objection.

Go look for yourself - when we're defending the existing system, you come swooping in to tell us how wrong we are.

I will give you that you usually don't go to the bit about how evil we are because we don't think opening America's borders is a solution.

[seer]

Read the rest of the article, Sparko. As I said - the numbers are all over the map - depending on whose numbers you accept. The Examiner focuses on the numbers the right likes to hear. The Post paints the wider picture, noting the wide variation depending on sources, and the near-impossibility of validation of many of these numbers.

Then why did you claim that the vast majority showed up for court dates?

[carpedm9587]

I addressed your apology point specifically - and we'd already hit the others. I specified the time frame I did for a reason - and you ignored it.

As you wish, Teal. Since you are unable to show where I said what you claimed I did, and I didn't in fact say any of it, you're not actually discussing with me - but rather with some illusion of me you've made up. I'll leave you to talk to the illusion. Last word to you, unless you address something I actually said.

[carpedm9587]

Then why did you claim that the vast majority showed up for court dates?

Actually - that's a good point. The statement was based in a memory of an article I read some time ago that claimed that the right-leaning assertion that people don't show up for their court dates were overblown and quoted an 89% statistic. It wasn't until I read the Washington Post article that I realized the 89% (presumably the remainder after the 11% number) was just as cherry-picked from the left, and I never went back and corrected my statement. Thanks for catching it, and I withdraw "the vast majority." The fact is, as best I can tell, we have numbers all over the map - and selecting a particular one that is "out there" is an exercise in confirmation bias. The family program, however, is (was) real, and showed a 99% success rate...but is being canceled. Go figure.

[seer]

Actually - that's a good point. The statement was based in a memory of an article I read some time ago that claimed that the right-leaning assertion that people don't show up for their court dates were overblown and quoted an 89% statistic. It wasn't until I read the Washington Post article that I realized the 89% (presumably the remainder after the 11% number) was just as cherry-picked from the left, and I never went back and corrected my statement. Thanks for catching it, and I withdraw "the vast majority." The fact is, as best I can tell, we have numbers all over the map - and selecting a particular one that is "out there" is an exercise in confirmation bias. The family program, however, is (was) real, and showed a 99% success rate...but is being canceled. Go figure.

This is the other problem. There are about a million illegals in this country with COURT adjudicated removal orders (some going back to Obama). A week or so ago Trump said he was sending ICE after this group - the left went ballistic - you even had politicians like Pelosi telling these illegals how to avoid ICE. With that kind of lawlessness we can never come to a consensus.