Kids In Cages...

[Sparko]

ANd we don't need to choose "either/or." We're the wealthiest nation on earth. We can do both. We will do neither, so long as we keep electing people who only toe the party line.

Maybe we CAN do both but we are NOT doing both. Instead we are concentrating everything on the border and not doing much at all about our inner city and homeless problems right here. So until we actually DO fix our own problems we don't need to be working on the problems of other countries.

And if we keep allowing in tens of thousands of people per month from third world countries who are poor and come here and have no job skills or opportunities, not only will they remain poor and add to the problem we already have, but we won't remain the "wealthiest nation on Earth"

And their countries will have no incentive to improve if they can export all of their malcontents to the USA.

And the lives of all of these people who come here will be no better than they were in Guatemala. Probably worse.

Remember that child that was on the cover of Time with Trump looking down at her crying?

Her mother left her husband and three other children in Honduras where they had a middle class life of about the same quality as a middle class family in the USA. They drove a late model car, the husband had a good job. He didn't abuse her or the kids.



And she wasn't separated from her kid like the news stories portrayed at the time. And this was her second attempt to enter the country, she was deported before.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...-officials-say
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...ously-deported

[Sparko]

I called him out on his handwaving away statistics he didn't like

[rogue06]

Maybe we CAN do both but we are NOT doing both. Instead we are concentrating everything on the border and not doing much at all about our inner city and homeless problems right here. So until we actually DO fix our own problems we don't need to be working on the problems of other countries.

And if we keep allowing in tens of thousands of people per month from third world countries who are poor and come here and have no job skills or opportunities, not only will they remain poor and add to the problem we already have, but we won't remain the "wealthiest nation on Earth"

And their countries will have no incentive to improve if they can export all of their malcontents to the USA.

And the lives of all of these people who come here will be no better than they were in Guatemala. Probably worse.

Remember that child that was on the cover of Time with Trump looking down at her crying?

Her mother left her husband and three other children in Honduras where they had a middle class life of about the same quality as a middle class family in the USA. They drove a late model car, the husband had a good job. He didn't abuse her or the kids.



And she wasn't separated from her kid like the news stories portrayed at the time. And this was her second attempt to enter the country, she was deported before.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...-officials-say
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...ously-deported

Stop disrupting the narrative with those bothersome fact thingies

[Sparko]

Stop disrupting the narrative with those bothersome fact thingies

Don't worry! Carp will remind us that an example is not evidence!

(unless it is his example that is)

[Cow Poke]

Actually - that's a good point. The statement was based in a memory of an article I read some time ago that claimed that the right-leaning assertion that people don't show up for their court dates were overblown and quoted an 89% statistic. It wasn't until I read the Washington Post article that I realized the 89% (presumably the remainder after the 11% number) was just as cherry-picked from the left, and I never went back and corrected my statement. Thanks for catching it, and I withdraw "the vast majority." The fact is, as best I can tell, we have numbers all over the map - and selecting a particular one that is "out there" is an exercise in confirmation bias. The family program, however, is (was) real, and showed a 99% success rate...but is being canceled. Go figure.

The reason we have "numbers all over the map" could well have something to do with the vast numbers of people who are "undocumented".

[Cow Poke]

I called him out on his handwaving away statistics he didn't like

Yeah, I was at the unusually awkwardly worded sentence.

[Sparko]

Yeah, I was at the unusually awkwardly worded sentence.

That for I did not see.

[carpedm9587]

This is the other problem. There are about a million illegals in this country with COURT adjudicated removal orders (some going back to Obama). A week or so ago Trump said he was sending ICE after this group - the left went ballistic - you even had politicians like Pelosi telling these illegals how to avoid ICE. With that kind of lawlessness we can never come to a consensus.

I didn't follow all of the news, but I did see a significant amount of resistance to the fact that ICE would not provide any assurance that people NOT on the court adjudicated list would be protected from deporting. For myself, I think those who have been identified for deportation should be deported, so long as the court order passes the "sniff" test (i.e., basically, the person being targeted should have a chance to appeal the ruling, especially if there is no indication of wrong doing other than being here illegally, and especially if that deportation would separate a family). Courts can also get it wrong...

[carpedm9587]

Maybe we CAN do both but we are NOT doing both. Instead we are concentrating everything on the border and not doing much at all about our inner city and homeless problems right here. So until we actually DO fix our own problems we don't need to be working on the problems of other countries.

From what I can see, there is a lot of fanfare about both, and not much action on either.

And if we keep allowing in tens of thousands of people per month from third world countries who are poor and come here and have no job skills or opportunities, not only will they remain poor and add to the problem we already have, but we won't remain the "wealthiest nation on Earth"

Speculation and fear mongering. And not really related to anything I have said, since I have not advocated for economic asylum.

And their countries will have no incentive to improve if they can export all of their malcontents to the USA.

Same comment.

And the lives of all of these people who come here will be no better than they were in Guatemala. Probably worse.

Same comment.

Remember that child that was on the cover of Time with Trump looking down at her crying?

Yes. It was a photoshopped image, IIRC.

Her mother left her husband and three other children in Honduras where they had a middle class life of about the same quality as a middle class family in the USA. They drove a late model car, the husband had a good job. He didn't abuse her or the kids.



And she wasn't separated from her kid like the news stories portrayed at the time. And this was her second attempt to enter the country, she was deported before.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...peaks-out.html
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/...-officials-say
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb...ously-deported

An example is not an argument. It's just one data point in a set that includes hundreds of thousands or millions of members.

You tend to do this a lot.

[seer]

I didn't follow all of the news, but I did see a significant amount of resistance to the fact that ICE would not provide any assurance that people NOT on the court adjudicated list would be protected from deporting. For myself, I think those who have been identified for deportation should be deported, so long as the court order passes the "sniff" test (i.e., basically, the person being targeted should have a chance to appeal the ruling, especially if there is no indication of wrong doing other than being here illegally, and especially if that deportation would separate a family). Courts can also get it wrong...

We are talking about legal court ordered deportation (all appeals exhausted), and the Dems tried to undermine enforcement, to undermine the law. There is no meeting of the minds when one party is lawless.

[carpedm9587]

Good point - ambiguously structured. It would have been written as follows:

You and Sparko seem intent on adding meaning, which I did not intend and do not advocate, to my posts.

[Cow Poke]

Good point - ambiguously structured. It would have been written as follows:

You and Sparko seem intent on adding meaning that I did not intend and do not advocate to my posts.

Much more Carpeish.

Capiche?

[carpedm9587]

We are talking about legal court ordered deportation (all appeals exhausted), and the Dems tried to undermine enforcement, to undermine the law. There is no meeting of the minds when one party is lawless.

Seer - there is a distinction between "court-ordered deportations" and "all appeals exhausted." I have not seen anything that affirms that all of the people who have been so ordered have had an opportunity to have their case reviewed by an appeals court. We live in an age with great polarization; having a second set of eyes review a case seems appropriate to me.

That being said, once the process has run its course, and deportation is still the outcome, then they should be deported. But only those on that list should be deported - not any illegal immigrant ICE stumbles across. Most of the objections I have seen are to the latter. I'm sure there are some objecting to the former. I would not be one of them and I would not agree with them. And attributing that to "Dems" is painting with far too broad a brush.

[carpedm9587]

Much more Carpeish.

Capiche?

You missed the edit. Now it's even goodlier.

[Sparko]

From what I can see, there is a lot of fanfare about both, and not much action on either.

shrug? So you really don't care about the suffering?

If we are going to help anyone, we need to do it at home first.

Speculation and fear mongering. And not really related to anything I have said, since I have not advocated for economic asylum.

It's neither, but your comment is your normal handwaving dismissal of anything you don't want to deal with.

Same comment.

Same handwaving dismissal

Same comment.

Same handwaving dismissal

An example is not an argument. It's just one data point in a set that includes hundreds of thousands or millions of members.

You tend to do this a lot.

Yep I called it. Another carp dismissal. You tend to do that a lot.

Hey what happened to "You can have the last word?"