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Cogito ergo sum

Here in the Philosophy forum we will talk about all the "why" questions. We'll have conversations about the way in which philosophy and theology and religion interact with each other. Metaphysics, ontology, origins, truth? They're all fair game so jump right in and have some fun! But remember...play nice!

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Are Thoughts Causal?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The only thing the evidence shows is that there is relation of dependence (of some sort) between the mind and the brain. Your supposed evidence that the mind is a product of the brain is just as absent as the evidence for any other theory.
    For beginning the following is a start for the scientific view:

    Source: https://www.aaas.org/programs/dialogue-science-ethics-and-religion/neuroscience-brain-mind



    Neuroscience, Brain & Mind

    Why do humans do what they do? What makes us tick? With increasingly sophisticated technology, experts can image, manipulate and scientifically test the human experience to a depth never before realized. Will this technology give us better insight into why we make the decisions we do? Can it help us understand the nature of spiritual experiences? How will understanding the brain affect our self-perception?

    Neuroscience is a rich field devoted to studying the many facets of the nervous system. The nervous system includes both the central nervous system, consisting of a brain and spinal cord, and the peripheral nervous system comprised of the nerves that lie in the extremities, muscles, and organs. Not all neuroscientists directly study the brain, but brain research tends to capture the attention and imagination of the modern audience. Some even regard the human brain as the most complex organism in the entire universe. Millions of years of biological and cultural evolution have made it possible for our species to compute patterns in nature, be conscious of ourselves, and empathize with one another. Understanding how all of this occurs is a fascinating challenge.

    Neuroscience research is advancing at a rapid pace, making exciting progress on a wide variety of issues. These range from the slowing of degenerative diseases such as Huntington’s Disease, ALS and Parkinson’s, to discoveries on how the brain develops in early childhood. Many recent advances in neuroscience also highlight ethical questions with both societal and personal consequences. Brain-Machine Interfaces (BMI), for example, allow biological organisms to interact with inorganic computers in order to increase a person’s lost or waning mobility. Researchers have found that simply thinking about moving a limb activates dozens of motor-control neurons in the brain, allowing for exterior machines to translate thoughts into movements. Paralyzed patients now have the ability to interact with the physical world in ways otherwise prohibited by their state. This is quite an exciting feat; one can only imagine how far this research will take us.

    On a chemical level, mood-altering drugs researched by neuroscientists cause major changes in temperament and personality. In these cases, what does it mean to “be yourself”? Should people be legally obligated to take certain medications that would decrease their threat to society? Is there research into other organic or holistic cures to neurological imbalances that lead to depression, schizophrenia and addiction? To what extent should we be concerned about the ethical parameters of animal testing, which is essential for this type of research? Unquestionably, the service that neuroscientific research provides is unparalleled, but it is imperative that scientists, policy makers and the public be attuned to both the newest discoveries as well as the philosophical and ethical conundrums they raise.

    Other concerns center on questions with spiritual ramifications such as the relationship between the human brain and mind. Interdisciplinary research in neuroscience, physics, biology, philosophy and even cosmology has sparked interest in the conversation regarding determinism and free will. The premise is that if actions of minute atoms can be measured with such a high degree of certainty, then can larger aspects of the universe which are comprised of these atoms also be determined with a keenly devised prescription? Do these predictions extend to choices we make, our personalities, and our future? Can we assume biology, conditioning, and probabilistic calculations have declared moot our ability to choose? Theologically speaking, do these determined actions affect our ability to choose good from evil?

    As scientists discover more functions and locations of brain activity, other societal concerns may arise. If empathy is identified at a particular point in the brain, could scientists directly intervene to enhance it? Should criminals with abnormal neurological structure receive the same punishment as others? Is there an experimental result that will disprove the traditional assertion of free will, and how will such conclusions affect religious communities and the basis of our justice systems? With such fundamental questions under consideration, it is essential that these and other issues be explored in tandem with neuroscience’s exciting rise from theory to practice.

    © Copyright Original Source



    More to follow . . .
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #32
      more to follow. . .

      There are many conferences cited in these conferences on Neuroscience and the relationship between the brain and the mind.

      https://www.aaas.org/search?

      searchTerm=Neuroscience%20and%20the%20brain&order= tfidf&limit=textFields&pageSize=10&articleTypes=AA AS.org%20Achievement&articleTypes=AAAS.org%20Blog& articleTypes=AAAS.org%20Event&articleTypes=AAAS.or g%20News&articleTypes=AAAS.org%20Page&articleTypes =AAAS.org%20Resource&articleTypes=Research%20and%2 0reviews&articleTypes=News&articleTypes=Careers%20 and%20career%20resources&articleTypes=Perspectives %20and%20commentary&articleTypes=Book%20and%20medi a%20reviews&articleTypes=Errata%20and%20correction s&articleTypes=Sciencetific%20community&articleTyp es=Podcasts%2C%20webinars%2C%20and%20media&article Types=Summaries%20and%20introductions&articleTypes =Other%2Funknown&articleTypes=Author%20information &

      It is well documented and supported by brain scans that the relationship between the brain and the mind is the only relationship that has been documented. The relationship between brain injury, genetic defects, drugs, mental illnesses have shown this relationship.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #33
        You might want to fix your link, cause it's broken.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          You might want to fix your link, cause it's broken.
          its an argument by weblink anyway which is against our rules.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            its an argument by weblink anyway which is against our rules.

            It was NOT just an argument from web link I gave an intro, and a description of the research in the conferences. It is the long list of conferences and research articles on the subject. I did give a summary of some of the articles I looked at. It is unfortunate that you do not want to your own homework on the science. Up to now you have presented nothing. I gave a good article from AAAS that described much of the current research and evidence on the subject, some of the ethical problems of the research, and it was ignored.

            It is well documented and supported by brain scans that the relationship between the brain and the mind is the only relationship that has been documented. The relationship between brain injury, genetic defects, drugs, mental illnesses have shown this relationship.

            https://www.aaas.org/programs/dialog...nce-brain-mind

            This web link leads to the others if one wants read the many research articles on the subject.

            As an alternative I may cite a selective few of the hundreds in the conferences, because after check getting to the conference articles takes some effort,

            more to follow. . .
            Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-03-2019, 02:19 PM.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              It was NOT just an argument from web link I gave an intro, and a description of the research in the conferences. It is the long list of conferences and research articles on the subject. I did give a summary of some of the articles I looked at. It is unfortunate that you do not want to your own homework on the science. Up to now you have presented nothing. I gave a good article from AAAS that described much of the current research and evidence on the subject, some of the ethical problems of the research, and it was ignored.

              It is well documented and supported by brain scans that the relationship between the brain and the mind is the only relationship that has been documented. The relationship between brain injury, genetic defects, drugs, mental illnesses have shown this relationship.

              https://www.aaas.org/programs/dialog...nce-brain-mind

              This web link leads to the others if one wants read the many research articles on the subject.

              As an alternative I may cite a selective few of the hundreds in the conferences, because after check getting to the conference articles takes some effort,

              more to follow. . .
              merely making an assertion and listing a search result is argument by weblink.

              Let me try.

              The mind is separate from the brain.

              https://www.google.com/search?client...30.afSO9nNUYSw

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                merely making an assertion and listing a search result is argument by weblink.

                Let me try.

                The mind is separate from the brain.

                https://www.google.com/search?client...30.afSO9nNUYSw
                I cited an actual article that describes actual research concerning the relationship of the brain and the mind, I will cite more, and you cite a juck list (arguing by web link with no explanation) that provides nothing of sort.

                For example:

                https://psychology.stackexchange.com...d-are-separate

                The best is probably the first, but it is just a philosophical discussion on the hypothetical possibilities and no research was referenced. Will keep this on file for further discussion.

                The third on the list is a Buddhist reference on their beliefs. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/co...rom_the_brain/

                This one http://www.cogsci.rpi.edu/~heuveb/te...odyProblem.pdf does not remotely support your view.

                It goes down hill from there.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  I cited an actual article that describes actual research concerning the relationship of the brain and the mind, I will cite more, and you cite a juck list (arguing by web link with no explanation) that provides nothing of sort.

                  For example:

                  https://psychology.stackexchange.com...d-are-separate

                  The best is probably the first, but it is just a philosophical discussion on the hypothetical possibilities and no research was referenced. Will keep this on file for further discussion.

                  The third on the list is a Buddhist reference on their beliefs. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/co...rom_the_brain/

                  This one http://www.cogsci.rpi.edu/~heuveb/te...odyProblem.pdf does not remotely support your view.

                  It goes down hill from there.
                  Linking articles as your argument IS argument by weblink you ninny.

                  You need to make a point, then quote from your source the relevant parts that support your point and then give a link. You can't just make a claim then link to an article.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Linking articles as your argument IS argument by weblink you ninny.

                    You need to make a point, then quote from your source the relevant parts that support your point and then give a link. You can't just make a claim then link to an article.
                    You are supposed to provide a short summary of what the link says and that can be as short as a single sentence. The only exception is for OPs

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      You are supposed to provide a short summary of what the link says and that can be as short as a single sentence. The only exception is for OPs
                      You are assuming that Shuny understands what he linked...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Are thoughts causal? I think so!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          Are thoughts causal? I think so!
                          OK, based on your religious belief.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            You are supposed to provide a short summary of what the link says and that can be as short as a single sentence. The only exception is for OPs
                            It was provided as a list of conferences and research as a companion article cited. No one has responded to the excellent artcle cited, and like you, ignoring the vast amount of research on the relationship between the brain and the mind. Of course you failed to note Sparkos posting by web links iwth literally bogus references, and not even a sentence explaining them. I described a few and found he was clueless as to the content.

                            I also corrected that I would cite individual research from the list. I do not believe that Sparko has volunteered to do so, and acknowledge that he was clueless to what he posted.
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 07-03-2019, 04:34 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by seer View Post
                              You are assuming that Shuny understands what he linked...
                              I see no response to the extensive article that described the re=search on the relationship between the brain and the mind.

                              Still waiting. . .
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                                You're actually supposed to provide some of that supposed evidence after making such an assertion. So we can have a look at it and seeing if it actually points to the conclusion that you claim.
                                Pansychism Chrawnus. It is the theory that mind is inherent in matter. It's not new, but it's catching on with many in the field.

                                Comment

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