Trump’s North Korea Trip

[Cow Poke]

I do see cause for concern. He has previously praised Kim for being a "tough guy", indicating that he possibly sees his human rights abuses as evidence of strength and raising the question of what he would do if given freer reign. ( https://nypost.com/2018/06/13/trump-...ings-hes-done/
) In that same 2018 interview, he downplayed Kim's moral rights abuses.

Even more troubling is the moral relativism/nihilism of Tucker Carlson the other day, who also downplayed Kim's moral rights abuses. While refusing to defend Kim, he rightly noted that America has some blood on its hands as well, and concluded that "leading a country means killing people". https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tucker-...illing-people/ This is the kind of moral relativism apologists normally condemn in atheists, especially the consistent ones. Leading citizens in mass into concentration camps, killing Christians, and publicly parading political prisoners in front of firing squads is just no different from what any other countries do. Make no mistake, this is a clear attempt to minimize Kim in the eyes of his viewers, and Carlson is not just any journalist; he is close to Trump, who trusts him enough that he used Carlson's show this week to roll out his plan for combating homelessness.

It says something that nobody on the right seems to have batted an eye at Carlson's comments. Like frogs in boiling water, everybody seems desensitized by now.

I hereby bat an eye at Carlson's comments.

[Cow Poke]

If it helps to bring peace and stability to the Korean Peninsula and by extension the rest of the Pacific and world, I think that we can suck up our president calling Kim a "tough guy" and the like is a very small price to pay.

Trump obviously doesn't play the diplomatic games of former presidents, nor dance their dances. I don't care nearly as much about the "style" as I do the results.

[Cow Poke]

Reagan and Gorbachev come to mind. Reagan cozied up to him a lot, and it ended with the Berlin wall coming down and the fall of the USSR.

It also helped Gorbochev decide to nullify the decree that exiled my friend, Georgi Vins, from Russia for preaching the Gospel, and restore his Russian citizenship to him.

[KingsGambit]

Didn't the USA prop up dictators during the Cold War just because they weren't communist? Them being evil dictators didn't matter as long as they did what the USA wanted in terms of trade and commerce.

Yes. Pinochet is the classic example here.

[oxmixmudd]

It also helped Gorbochev decide to nullify the decree that exiled my friend, Georgi Vins, from Russia for preaching the Gospel, and restore his Russian citizenship to him.

Gorbechev made overt positive overtures and concessions to its people, to the world, and to the US to get that meeting. Remember "Glasnost"? It is silly and naive to try to compare Reagan/Gorbechev to Trump/Un.

I'd like to refresh the thread with KingGambits comment on this. It sums up the problem nicely:

This is the kind of moral relativism apologists normally condemn in atheists, especially the consistent ones. Leading citizens in mass into concentration camps, killing Christians, and publicly parading political prisoners in front of firing squads is just no different from what any other countries do. Make no mistake, this is a clear attempt to minimize Kim in the eyes of his viewers, and Carlson is not just any journalist; he is close to Trump, who trusts him enough that he used Carlson's show this week to roll out his plan for combating homelessness.

Jim

[Cow Poke]

Gorbechev made overt positive overtures and concessions to its people, to the world, and to the US to get that meeting. Remember "Glasnost"? It is silly and naive to try to compare Reagan/Gorbechev to Trump/Un.

Jim

You're just not happy unless you're griping about something. My comment was about Gorby - not about comparing him to Trump.

[rogue06]

I hereby bat an eye at Carlson's comments.

I see your bat and raise you another plus throw in a look of scornful disdain.



In seriousness, that sort of stuff is what you used to hear from the left back during the Cold War and it is a bit of a surprise that Carlson would sink to that level (assuming that he's quoted accurately).

[Cow Poke]

I see your bat and raise you another plus throw in a look of scornful disdain.



In seriousness, that sort of stuff is what you used to hear from the left back during the Cold War and it is a bit of a surprise that Carlson would sink to that level (assuming that he's quoted accurately).

I am officially no fan of Carlson. The few times I'm "scanning the band" and I come across him, he has such a goofy look on his face when his guest is talking. I just don't like him.

So, in truth, I probably don't 'bat an eye' as much as I "press the button", and move on. It's my way of "gonging" him.

[Sparko]

do you really thing Gorbachev and Un are in the same class?

Jim

In Asian culture the last name comes first: Kim. Jong Un is his first name.

But yes. But Gorbachev ran a much more powerful country. The principal is the same. Get the petty dictator to like you, then influence them to do what you want.

Kim is as much a narcissist as Trump, so I think Trump knows how to handle him. Stroke his ego. Kim desperately wants to matter to the world, that is why he keeps doing things to get the world to take him seriously, like shooting missiles. So Trump gives him some attention and Kim feels like he is playing with the big boys now, and wants to keep being on top, so he agrees to do what Trump asks of him and he gets the recognition and publicity he wants.

And it seems to be working. Kim is meeting with South Korea and normalizing relations. He has stopped shooting missiles at Japan and threatening the USA, and seems to have stopped nuclear bomb testing.

[KingsGambit]

I don't want to derail JP's thread but the discussion of Carlson's comments has me thinking again about Roger Olson's blog post claiming that a Christian probably cannot be president at this point in time. I suspect the gist of what Olson says is correct even if what some of he says is odd (like his claim that Jimmy Carter is the only truly Christian president in American history; as a Texan there's no way he could have just forgotten about George W. Bush).

One particularly provocative quote:

Personally, I doubt one can be committed to God’s “upside down kingdom” where the first are last and the last first, where the weak and powerless are lifted up, where justice and mercy come together, and where lying is forbidden as is catering to the powerful and wealthy, and be president of any modern nation state.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogere...united-states/

[One Bad Pig]

And I don't think I'll ever understand the mindset that says anything is ok as long as it can be used to twerk the MSM.

Jim

I'm not discussing Trump with you, Jim. Thanks.

[Teallaura]

Gorbechev made overt positive overtures and concessions to its people, to the world, and to the US to get that meeting. Remember "Glasnost"? It is silly and naive to try to compare Reagan/Gorbechev to Trump/Un.

I'd like to refresh the thread with KingGambits comment on this. It sums up the problem nicely:





Jim

Er, Jim, you really want N. Korea to have a major nuclear accident before letting them come to the negotiating table? Glasnost came into being in large part because of Chernobyl.

We've isolated the hell out of N. Korea for over fifty years - Plan A ain't working.

If we want to affect their internal policies, we're gonna have to talk to them.

[rogue06]

Er, Jim, you really want N. Korea to have a major nuclear accident before letting them come to the negotiating table? Glasnost came into being in large part because of Chernobyl.

We've isolated the hell out of N. Korea for over fifty years - Plan A ain't working.

If we want to affect their internal policies, we're gonna have to talk to them.

From a post in another thread last June

On Netflix's "The Break with Michelle Wolf" they asked the audience the question "Are You Sort Of Hoping We Don't Get Peace With North Korea So You Wouldn't Have To Give Trump Credit?"

71% said yes.

It is pretty difficult to find anything on this but here is a video clip that I'm not directly linking to due to the use of a naughty word for the rectum https://twitter.com/BrentHBaker/status/1003709048557064199

Bill Maher on HBO hopes for economic disaster for the U.S. purely because that would hurt Trump and these idiots would rather see a nuclear armed North Korea than Trump get any credit for disarmament

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Increasingly unhinged folks.

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It seems that the left has changed one of their slogans: Give Peace Nuclear War A Chance

Note that I'm not saying that ox is like that but to note that such folks exist

[Roy]

Kim is as much a narcissist as Trump, so I think Trump knows how to handle him. Stroke his ego.

That works both ways round:

Trump is as much a narcissist as Kim, so I think Kim knows how to handle him. Stroke his ego.

[Cow Poke]

That works both ways round:

Trump is as much a narcissist as Kim, so I think Kim knows how to handle him. Stroke his ego.

Yes, we'd MUCH rather have thermonuclear war than ego stroking.