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Conservative answer to Global Warming
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"What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
CP - go look at the tone and character of your posts. Forget about me. Look at how you treat JimL. Over and over again mocking him. Spitting on him every chance you get. I don't care how 'stupid' his posts might be in your eyes - quoting Jesus wanting to be peoples friends and then acting like that is despicable.
Jim
You might want to reconsider your theology.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostYour comment was basically 'sit down, shut up, you're too stupid to understand' - and the idea that only experts can comment on things that affect public policy is just false.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 07-05-2019, 09:57 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostYep, I agree! It's why I no longer engage with him...life's too short...
If OTOH, your goal is a punching bag that you can insult every other sentence without any sort of negative consequence - then not so much.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostPerhaps to a certain extent. But the reality is, there is no scientifically valid reason to dispute the finding that the world is warming and has warmed significantly from what it was before the industrial revolution - in the last 50 years especially. And further, there is hardly a leg to stand on in disputing that the human (or human directed) greenhouse gas contribution (and modification of the landscape) has not been a significant factor in that increase - especially its rate of change.
Jim
https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/...lly-everything
"Seven Big Failed Environmentalist Predictions"
https://thefederalist.com/2015/04/24...t-predictions/
"...researchers concluded that total emissions of 200 gigatonnes of carbon – or 240 gigatonnes with significant amounts of climate mitigation – would probably produce less than 0.6C of warming, according to their analysis of climate models."
https://www.independent.co.uk/infact...-a7955991.htmlSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostPerhaps to a certain extent.
But the reality is, there is no scientifically valid reason to dispute the finding that the world is warming and has warmed significantly from what it was before the industrial revolution - in the last 50 years especially. And further, there is hardly a leg to stand on in disputing that the human (or human directed) greenhouse gas contribution (and modification of the landscape) has not been a significant factor in that increase - especially its rate of change.
Jim
I already allowed the data shows something - you'll have to take up this issue with MM."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNo, it was a total dismissal of the person, not the argument.
This is actually opinion - of course there are ways to dispute it scientifically. Which ones are correct is the actual debate.
I already allowed the data shows something - you'll have to take up this issue with MM.
https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...al-temperature
https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve
You are the one talking to me and zara and saying there are reasonable reasons to doubt the conclusion that global warming is real. Granted, you were trying to provide back up to a comment MM made, but that is somewhat irrelevant as regards your part in the conversation. So it would seem if you wanted to establish the correctness of that claim, you'd want to provide some sort of evidence that backs is up - yes?
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Just a reminder, this thread is not a debate on whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change is true or not...it's about what answer(s) conservatives have or would accept.
From the OP:
Originally posted by Leonhard View PostGlobal Warming is happening.
Human industry is largely responsible.
The consequences of Global Warming will be severe.
If action is taken now a lot of it can be averted.
I don't want to start a discussion about whether these statements are true or not. I think we know where people stand. I'm just interested in the political question of whether US Conservative politics could even deal with the situation where these statements are true. Conservatives are all about minimizing government, deregulating the markets and (seemingly to me) supporting the growth of large corporations.
But since the cheapest energy sources are also the ones that pollute the most, notably coal and natural gas, this results in a situation where the free market will tend to favor those actions. If humans were rational actors, they'd accept that their choices have consequences and buy accordingly. But one thing we know is that the market isn't entirely rational, and short term gain is favored a lot more than gain that happens over decades or a century.
So barring this I just don't see how Conservatives could even deal with a world where Global Warming was happening.
What do you guys think? Can the only political response to Global Warming by Conservatives in the US be to deny it?"What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostJust a reminder, this thread is not a debate on whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change is true or not...it's about what answer(s) conservatives have or would accept.
Let's put it this way: conservatives might be more willing to have a discussion if the liberal solutions to "climate change" were more than their globalist agenda wishlist.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's an odd way to frame the question, because whether or not it's true makes a big difference about what solutions are reasonable to accept. Will human civilization be wiped out in two-decades because of catastrophic man-caused warming? In that case, some of the more drastic and economically damaging solutions might be the best option (but I have no confidence that their predictions for two-decades in the future are going to be any more accurate than their wildly wrong predictions from two-decades in the past). Is it normal climatic variations that we are almost entirely powerless to stop, and we just need to be good stewards of the Earth? Then a more modest proposal is needed.
Let's put it this way: conservatives might be more willing to have a discussion if the liberal solutions to "climate change" were more than their globalist agenda wishlist.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostSomething? Yes - about 1.5 deg C rise in temperature since 1900, and an increase in CO2 of nearly 25% since 1960 (320ppm to 414ppm in May 2019)
https://www.climate.gov/news-feature...al-temperature
https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeling_Curve
You are the one talking to me and zara and saying there are reasonable reasons to doubt the conclusion that global warming is real. Granted, you were trying to provide back up to a comment MM made, but that is somewhat irrelevant as regards your part in the conversation. So it would seem if you wanted to establish the correctness of that claim, you'd want to provide some sort of evidence that backs is up - yes?
Jim
MY point was that saying 'there is no debate' is foolishness. Thank you for proving it."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostMM can argue for himself. Frankly, little wonder no one debates you politely - you shoot at anyone who even slightly disagrees, even when they are open to your position or substantively agreeing with you.
MY point was that saying 'there is no debate' is foolishness. Thank you for proving it.
But I was enjoying a friendly conversation with you.
There was nothing in your posts that I saw as any sort of attack on me, and I had no intention of responding harshly to you.
I am sorry you perceived my response that way.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 07-05-2019, 01:44 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostJust a reminder, this thread is not a debate on whether or not Global Warming/Climate Change is true or not...it's about what answer(s) conservatives have or would accept.
From the OP:
But I do wonder given the current response of conservatives to this issue if it is possible. Long term global threats require long term solutions, working together with other nations, and likely sacrifice or change to current processes and methodologies. That requires something capitalism isn't so good at. Taking a personal hit for the sake of the other guy.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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A lot of interesting responses.
Though, please refrain from discussing whether Global Warming is happening or not. We’ve done that to death and everyone knows where everyone stands.
I’m just interested whether US Conservative ideology could even deal with it.
Will respond more later.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd if there wasn't so much extremism and hypocrisy from those 'preaching' it.
Here's where I stand on the issue: is the Earth's climate changing? Probably. That's what the Earth's climate does. Is man causing it? Probably not. Climate change is perfectly natural and normal. Can we stop it or significantly alter it? Unlikely. I suspect we'd have as much success if we tried to stop the sun from rising. Can we still do something to make the Earth a better place to live? Absolutely, but that "better place" is not the socialist utopia that liberals keep trying to sell us.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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