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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    As the uk response ststed, they pay him to give them frank and honest assessments of the conditions in their country. That means NOT being diplomatic in those assessments. Normally such assessments are not made public, for obvious reasons.

    Jim
    If he can't manage frank and honest without insulting and denigrating, he isn't much of a diplomat. Reports are kept confidential for a variety of reasons - but any sensible person knows leaks happen. This is why a good diplomat uses words they don't mind having to eat.

    Looks to me very much like the pot calling the kettle black.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      If he can't manage frank and honest without insulting and denigrating, he isn't much of a diplomat. Reports are kept confidential for a variety of reasons - but any sensible person knows leaks happen. This is why a good diplomat uses words they don't mind having to eat.

      Looks to me very much like the pot calling the kettle black.
      The assessment says more about the UK than it does about Trump.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
        If he can't manage frank and honest without insulting and denigrating, he isn't much of a diplomat. Reports are kept confidential for a variety of reasons - but any sensible person knows leaks happen. This is why a good diplomat uses words they don't mind having to eat.

        Looks to me very much like the pot calling the kettle black.

        What synonyms for incompetent and inept would you have preferred he have used? And would they be any less insulting?

        I am not sure that an honest assessment of incompetent or inept has a 'diplomatic' form that is accurate, but I'll be interested in knowing what you think that would be.

        Jim
        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          The assessment says more about the UK than it does about Trump.
          First, i doubt very seriously that assessment is unique to the UK. And second, it really only says something about what the assessment of this ambassador is. Except, as I already alluded to, he's most likely not unique or alone.

          I would be willing to bet you would find similar assessments in the records of many ambassadors to the US over the last 3 years or so.

          Jim
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
            Apparently you didn't read my post, or had trouble comprehending once again. Those would be democratic processes, not an autocrats undermining of the democratic process.
            And how is Trump doing that?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              What synonyms for incompetent and inept would you have preferred he have used? And would they be any less insulting?

              I am not sure that an honest assessment of incompetent or inept has a 'diplomatic' form that is accurate, but I'll be interested in knowing what you think that would be.

              Jim
              I suppose the real question is, what useful information did this "diplomat" think he was conveying to his bosses? What was the anticipated result other than to encourage them to treat the leader of an allied nation with hostility and contempt? They say that the definition of "diplomacy" is the art of letting the other guy have your way, and based on at least this memo, this "diplomat" sounds profoundly bad at his job.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                I suppose the real question is, what useful information did this "diplomat" think he was conveying to his bosses? What was the anticipated result other than to encourage them to treat the leader of an allied nation with hostility and contempt? They say that the definition of "diplomacy" is the art of letting the other guy have your way, and based on at least this memo, this "diplomat" sounds profoundly bad at his job.
                If the leader of the free nation is inept or incompetent, then the UK needs to be careful what information it shares with him and his staff. You may be insulted by the idea Trump is inept or incompetent, and he may not be, but that doesn't change the fact that the UK needs to know if that is the case, and they pay that ambassador to make sure they know about it if that is the case. OTOH, if his reports contain unsubstantiated personal opinion rather that what the UK sees are accurate assessments, he won't be long for the job. They need accurate information so they can understand how to interact with the US and with Trump. If this Ambassador can't or won't provide that, there are plenty of people that will.


                Jim
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Plus the ambassadors from the US to other countries would be using similar frank language when reporting back to POTUS, and Trump himself would have read many similar reports from his ambassadors to other countries as they pass his desk. I doubt this assessment of the current US administration is unique to him or the UK, and I say this knowing full well that ambassadors reporting back to their countries about the current UK administration would be equally frank. Unfortunately you're not the only country currently embarrassing itself on the world stage

                  Comment


                  • The discussion at the moment is more about the leak itself, rather than its contents, not that they aren't embarrassing, but it's generally accepted that ambassadors reports to their home countries are for their eyes only.

                    Comment


                    • Thread title: CNN ratings

                      Last several posts: Trump and UK ambassador...


                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      - Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                        Thread title: CNN ratings

                        Last several posts: Trump and UK ambassador...


                        Yes, let's please get back on topic.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Thread title: CNN ratings

                          Last several posts: Trump and UK ambassador...


                          I think it started with the caveat "... as reported by CNN" which tied it back to the op, but which led to the current discussion.
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            What synonyms for incompetent and inept would you have preferred he have used? And would they be any less insulting?

                            I am not sure that an honest assessment of incompetent or inept has a 'diplomatic' form that is accurate, but I'll be interested in knowing what you think that would be.

                            Jim
                            "We have some serious concerns as Bob does not seem fully up to speed with regards to policy."

                            "There may be some issue with regards to Bob's understanding of policy."

                            "We are concerned at Bob's lack of preparedness regarding the policy meeting."

                            And so on - not rocket science to just not sound like a jerk.


                            Being tactful is at the core of being a diplomat. Being unable, as opposed to unwilling, brings the Ambassador's qualifications into question. Being unwilling brings his fitness to serve into question.

                            This kind of rookie mistake is not even slightly okay in any competent diplomatic corps.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by EvoUK View Post
                              The discussion at the moment is more about the leak itself, rather than its contents, not that they aren't embarrassing, but it's generally accepted that ambassadors reports to their home countries are for their eyes only.
                              Sure, but he still comes off as a jerk and it makes the UK's diplomats look bad.

                              Always use your sweet words - ya never know when you may have to eat them.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • The irony of somebody who by and large supports Trump criticizing someone else for poor diplomacy is not lost on me.
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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