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Thread: CNN Ratings Collapse

  1. #201
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Certainly possible. I think the suspect list is gonna be a long one.
    Jaltus.

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  3. #202
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Certainly possible. I think the suspect list is gonna be a long one.
    It could just a easily be someone with no other motive than to have a laugh.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #203
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    How is what he wrote about Trump and his administration NOT going to hurt the UK/US relations, especially if they are taken seriously? The result would be the UK not taking Trump seriously, losing respect for the USA in general, etc. That would hurt the UK/US relations. So yes, he was trying to hurt the US/UK relations. He sure as hell wasn't trying to make them better was he?
    If it is the truth, then it helps the UK protect itself from the consequences, and may help the UK to deal with Trump in ways that don't have longer term consequences.


    You keep acting like the truth is a bad thing. If Trump is inept, then the governments that work with him need to know it. Do you really suppose it is actually best of we pretend the Emperor's new cloths look really good?

    So the issue really is whether or not the assessment is correct, not that he said those words.

    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  5. #204
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    If it is the truth, then it helps the UK protect itself from the consequences, and may help the UK to deal with Trump in ways that don't have longer term consequences.


    You keep acting like the truth is a bad thing. If Trump is inept, then the governments that work with him need to know it. Do you really suppose it is actually best of we pretend the Emperor's new cloths look really good?

    So the issue really is whether or not the assessment is correct, not that he said those words.

    Jim
    If they believe the US is inept then they will not want to deal with the US or trust it. That means the relations will suffer. This isn't rocket science, Jim. How do you have a better relationship with someone you don't respect or believe is inept? Do you have a better or worse relationship with Mountain Man now that you know he is a rabid Trump supporter?

  6. Amen Teallaura, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  7. #205
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    If they believe the US is inept then they will not want to deal with the US or trust it. That means the relations will suffer. This isn't rocket science, Jim. How do you have a better relationship with someone you don't respect or believe is inept? Do you have a better or worse relationship with Mountain Man now that you know he is a rabid Trump supporter?
    Exactly Sparko. So if it's an accurate assessment, it is a very big problem. But it's not the words that create the problem if it's accurate, it's the president himself. (likewise, it's not the phrase 'trump supporter' or my belief that MM is a Trump supporter that makes conversations with MM about Trump difficult)

    But to be clear, the ineptness was attributed to the current president, not the US as a whole. And it really doesn't matter what the reaction is if the assessment is true assuming the communique was private - for official eyes only in the UK. The truth is what the UK needed to know, and what their ambassador believed he was giving them. If he is wrong - then they may need a new ambassador. If he is correct, then they needed to know so that they could deal with Trump accordingly. And that may well mean not sharing critical intel and so forth.

    The sad truth is - as I said earlier - the UK ambassador is likely not the only ambassador to relay such a message to their governments - though perhaps less graphically worded - and that should concern all of us - and not just so we can browbeat their governments into shipping out new ambassadors.


    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-09-2019 at 08:29 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  8. #206
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    It could just a easily be someone with no other motive than to have a laugh.


    "Some men just want to watch the world burn"

    Alfred, The Dark Knight.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-09-2019 at 08:33 AM.
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  9. #207
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Exactly Sparko. So if it's an accurate assessment, it is a very big problem. It's not the words that create the problem if it's accurate, it's the president himself.

    But to be clear, the ineptness was attributed to the current president, not the US as a whole. And it really doesn't matter what the reaction is if the assessment is true assuming the communique was private - for official eyes only in the UK. The truth is what the UK needed to know, and what their ambassador believed he was giving them. If he is wrong - then they may need a new ambassador. If he is correct, then they needed to know so that they could deal with Trump accordingly. And that may well mean not sharing critical intel and so forth.

    The sad truth is - as I said earlier - the UK ambassador is likely not the only ambassador to relay such a message to their governments - though perhaps less graphically worded - and that should concern all of us - and not just so we can browbeat their governments into shipping out new ambassadors.


    Jim
    Repeating yourself doesn't change anything Jim. If they believe him then their view of the USA will be lowered. As will their trust and respect. Which would be reciprocated by the US. That is defacto what it means to have relations suffer. Perhaps it is justified in your view, but it still would be the relations suffering, not getting better.

    For example, say in 1937 the USA and Nazi Germany were getting along fine and our Ambassador wrote a message to the President saying "This Hitler guy is a real turd. We can't trust him or his administration as far as we can spit!" -- would that not cause the US/German relations to suffer? Deservedly so in that case, but suffer none-the-less? We would no longer be buddy buddy with them would we?

  10. #208
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Repeating yourself doesn't change anything Jim. If they believe him then their view of the USA will be lowered. As will their trust and respect. Which would be reciprocated by the US. That is defacto what it means to have relations suffer. Perhaps it is justified in your view, but it still would be the relations suffering, not getting better.

    For example, say in 1937 the USA and Nazi Germany were getting along fine and our Ambassador wrote a message to the President saying "This Hitler guy is a real turd. We can't trust him or his administration as far as we can spit!" -- would that not cause the US/German relations to suffer? Deservedly so in that case, but suffer none-the-less? We would no longer be buddy buddy with them would we?
    Are you advocating the ambassador lie to his government to cover up the truth to keep 'relations' superficially chummy?

    And my expectation would be that the British Government is competent enough to know that Trump is inept and still deal diplomatically with him on open conversation (as would be almost all of our officials - save Trump himself - which more or less is the point, the reason the ambassador said what he did)

    Jim
    OK - maybe there are 'some' friends

  11. #209
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Exactly Sparko. So if it's an accurate assessment, it is a very big problem. But it's not the words that create the problem if it's accurate, it's the president himself. (likewise, it's not the phrase 'trump supporter' or my belief that MM is a Trump supporter that makes conversations with MM about Trump difficult)

    But to be clear, the ineptness was attributed to the current president, not the US as a whole. And it really doesn't matter what the reaction is if the assessment is true assuming the communique was private - for official eyes only in the UK. The truth is what the UK needed to know, and what their ambassador believed he was giving them. If he is wrong - then they may need a new ambassador. If he is correct, then they needed to know so that they could deal with Trump accordingly. And that may well mean not sharing critical intel and so forth.

    The sad truth is - as I said earlier - the UK ambassador is likely not the only ambassador to relay such a message to their governments - though perhaps less graphically worded - and that should concern all of us - and not just so we can browbeat their governments into shipping out new ambassadors.


    Jim
    No, it's a big problem regardless of whether or not it's true. Also, Trump could have made things much worse, so it appears to be false.

  12. #210
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Are you advocating the ambassador lie to his government to cover up the truth to keep 'relations' superficially chummy?

    And my expectation would be that the British Government is competent enough to know that Trump is inept and still deal diplomatically with him on open conversation (as would be almost all of our officials - save Trump himself - which more or less is the point, the reason the ambassador said what he did)

    Jim

    The ambassador, not the President, caused an international incident. Looking at the facts, who's actually inept? The ambassador.

  13. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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