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  1. #251
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Completely orthogonal situations sparko. No analogy possible. The ambassador was just doing his job, the communique was supposed to be private. Clinton was housing classified information on an insecure and public network.

    Jim
    Oh come on Jim. It is a perfect analogy. It shows that the action is the cause of the controversy, not the leak. People can be upset that a leak happened (they were mad at Wikileaks) but they were more upset about Hillary's action. Same with the Ambassador. They are upset a leak happened but his words are what everyone is really upset about and what the controversy is about.

    I realize you don't want to admit you are wrong, but you are.

  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #252
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And now the so-called "ambassador" has done the only honorable thing he could do: resign.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201..._medium=banner
    Honor is not even an issue here. The man did nothing wrong. He resigned because trump decided to extract revenge because he found out the ambassador said unflattering things about him This is what Trump is and how he operates.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. #253
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    No, i dug into the absurd idea that a sufficiently strong logical argument could undo the implications of the data as regards deducing what the shape of the earth is or what stars are.

    The arguments you were making showed a very limited understanding of how science works or what the actual data is.

    Jim

    ETA: im not a fan of argument from authority, but i do find it silly when people that barely have a high school understanding of science think they can understand what makes sense regarding a topic like global warming over and against people with real PhDs from top universities and who have worked and researched the field for decades.

    My argument was that the research stands or falls on its own merit - and the basics of methodology do not change. If you (general) can't show methodological validity, your paper isn't worth reading. I never argued the logic overrules data - one supports the other. That nonsense is your prejudice against any and all skepticism, regardless of rationale.

    The reverse applies to you. You've obviously never read anything regarding diplomacy or international relations and very clearly don't understand the principles of either. You posit the absurd notion that sensitive documents should be crudely written in the interest of being 'frank and honest'. Well, that's exactly what just caused an international incident.

    I chose the word absurd deliberately. It's 'frank and honest' and correct. Diplomatic documents are intel gold - assuming they won't be compromised is like a teen aged girl assuming her kid brother won't read her securely locked and hidden diary.
    Last edited by Teallaura; 07-10-2019 at 07:42 AM.

  5. Amen One Bad Pig amen'd this post.
  6. #254
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Oh come on Jim. It is a perfect analogy. It shows that the action is the cause of the controversy, not the leak. People can be upset that a leak happened (they were mad at Wikileaks) but they were more upset about Hillary's action. Same with the Ambassador. They are upset a leak happened but his words are what everyone is really upset about and what the controversy is about.

    I realize you don't want to admit you are wrong, but you are.
    It's his job to relay his honest assessment of the president to his government, that's the job of an ambassador. That is what ambassadors all over the world do. Somebody leaked it, and that is the problem. Had his assessment of the presidents incompetence not been leaked you and the president wouldn't be upset.

  7. #255
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    It's his job to relay his honest assessment of the president to his government, that's the job of an ambassador. That is what ambassadors all over the world do. Somebody leaked it, and that is the problem. Had his assessment of the presidents incompetence not been leaked you and the president wouldn't be upset.
    Whether true or not that has nothing to do with the analogy I gave. The "action" in the analogy doesn't matter, except that it is something people are up in arms about and not the leak that exposed it. You are just trying to pick apart the analogy because you don't want to admit you are wrong in your debate with Teal. But regardless of whether he was "doing his job" - the fact remains that his words are what is the actual controversy, not the leak, and if he had worded his reports better, there would be no controversy even if they had been leaked. If they had leaked that Hillary was using a government server and following protocol would there have been any controversy? People would just shrug and say "good for her"

  8. #256
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    I'm also not a big fan of arguments from authority in all parts of discussion, particular when science starts making claims about meaning and normativity. I.e., when it significantly oversteps its bounds under the banner of naturalism and similar reductionist ontologies. That is not the case with climate science - hence the stone wall against deniers.
    It's literally the only argument you made.

  9. #257
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLamebrain View Post
    He was telling it like he saw it.
    No, he was being petty and vindictive. There was not an ounce of useful information in his memo that his bosses could have used to strike a good-faith deal with Trump. It was clearly written by someone who had the goal of harming rather than improving UK/US relations.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  10. #258
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Honor is not even an issue here. The man did nothing wrong.
    That's debatable. He showed himself to be petty and small-minded and incapable of sharing the world stage with adults.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #259
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That is exactly correct

    It was between he and his government and he should be free to express what he believes to be true to them.

    Jim
    Naive. Have you never seen even a spy movie? Ian Fleming gets at least that much right.

  12. #260
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And now the so-called "ambassador" has done the only honorable thing he could do: resign.

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/201..._medium=banner
    I think it is an honorable out. He made a rookie mistake and got called on it. He's owns up by resigning - I wish him well.
    Last edited by Teallaura; 07-10-2019 at 07:54 AM.

  13. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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