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Americans Strongly Dislike PC Culture

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  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    How is that not providing the equivalent of the common excuse "Everyone else was doing it!" ?

    My point about the culture is not to say that what is right or wrong is defined by what most people were doing. It is to say we have to measure their moral actions against the moral standards of the day. Against what people were taught and what they believed, at the time, to be right and wrong.


    Jim
    I'm confused...You actually thought that OBP was excusing sex with slaves because he pointed out that it was relatively common among slave holders? I can't think of anyone in the modern world (outside of perhaps the most depraved racists or something), never mind a fellow Christian you've gotten to know for quite some time, would actually excuse that sort of behavior.

    I think sometimes people are too quick to read into other peoples words when all they're simply doing is dropping some factoid or something. I've seen this sort of response to some of my posts in other forums (and at least once in real life) where people will be like, "WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING THIS!!??," and I'm like..."uh, I'm not. Nothing in what I said could lead anyone to believe I'm supporting it. I'm just throwing in an interesting trivia bit, or providing greater context."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      I'm confused...You actually thought that OBP was excusing sex with slaves because he pointed out that it was relatively common among slave holders? I can't think of anyone in the modern world (outside of perhaps the most depraved racists or something), never mind a fellow Christian you've gotten to know for quite some time, would actually excuse that sort of behavior.

      I think sometimes people are too quick to read into other peoples words when all they're simply doing is dropping some factoid or something. I've seen this sort of response to some of my posts in other forums (and at least once in real life) where people will be like, "WHY ARE YOU SUPPORTING THIS!!??," and I'm like..."uh, I'm not. Nothing in what I said could lead anyone to believe I'm supporting it. I'm just throwing in an interesting trivia bit, or providing greater context."
      Can we not go off the deep end here? The comment of mine that is being addressed is the idea that we can't hold people accountable for today's moral standards in a time when they simply didn't exist. In that context, jefferson holding slaves is not the same in the same moral context as someone in and around the time of the civil war holding slaves. But then jefferson having sex with slaves was mentioned.

      So I'm not accusing OBP of anything. But I am saying that to say 'It was common at the time' functions as an excuse. So all I'm doing is making the point that it's commonality does not function as an excuse even though that is a potential implication of that statement. I'm not saying anything about what OBP's motive was in making the comment. And no, I don't think OBP thinks sex with slaves is OK. I'm just saying that the fact it was common doesn't mean Jefferson can't be held accountable for knowing it was wrong, because sex with anyone other than your wife was a very bad thing at the time he did it - socially, morally. However, holding slaves didn't rise to that level. Slavery was accepted in the time, and there was, AFAIK, no social or moral code in that culture that was being broken by holding them.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
        Can we not go off the deep end here? The comment of mine that is being addressed is the idea that we can't hold people accountable for today's moral standards in a time when they simply didn't exist. In that context, jefferson holding slaves is not the same in the same moral context as someone in and around the time of the civil war holding slaves. But then jefferson having sex with slaves was mentioned.

        So I'm not accusing OBP of anything. But I am saying that to say 'It was common at the time' functions as an excuse. So all I'm doing is making the point that it's commonality does not function as an excuse even though that is a potential implication of that statement. I'm not saying anything about what OBP's motive was in making the comment. And no, I don't think OBP thinks sex with slaves is OK. I'm just saying that the fact it was common doesn't mean Jefferson can't be held accountable for knowing it was wrong, because sex with anyone other than your wife was a very bad thing at the time he did it - socially, morally. However, holding slaves didn't rise to that level. Slavery was accepted in the time, and there was, AFAIK, no social or moral code in that culture that was being broken by holding them.

        Jim
        It seems to me that you should have read enough of OBP's posts by now to know that he's a little smarter than that; That he's not saying that just because slave holders often used their slaves for sex, that it was acceptable (even within the era), or that Jefferson shouldn't be held accountable. I think you have to read into OBP's post to get that out of it. A plain reading of his post merely shows him stating an objective factoid about the common practices of slave holders.

        Comment


        • They say they hate it, but yet they give into it. Politicians and government officials pander to it. Corporations bend the knee to this powerful force of the minority. It's weird.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by seanD View Post
            They say they hate it, but yet they give into it. Politicians and government officials pander to it. Corporations bend the knee to this powerful force of the minority. It's weird.
            My conclusions from this thread is that hardly anybody actually opposes it in practice, and that at least the way it has been defined in this thread, PC is probably not even a bad thing.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              My conclusions from this thread is that hardly anybody actually opposes it in practice, and that at least the way it has been defined in this thread, PC is probably not even a bad thing.
              I think that would be impossible to claim since none of us, even as Christians, agree about everything all the time, much LESS Christians and non-Christians. It's as bad as the nebulous and meaningless term "hate speech." PC, like hate speech, is simply speech I (predominantly the political left) don't like and have the authority and/or influence to make you stop saying it. And you do realize that in today's cultural and political climate, PC is the major factor (other than spiritual forces) that cultivates animosity towards Christianity?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                They say they hate it, but yet they give into it. Politicians and government officials pander to it. Corporations bend the knee to this powerful force of the minority. It's weird.
                In my former life as local news videographer, it used to amaze me how a single viewer calling in a complaint, no matter how petty, would compel the news director to change the offending matter.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  So much so that the term itself has come to represent the extreme version of itself.
                  I think this is the key.... "Political Correctness" as it may have started our originally has moved so far to the extreme that -- yeah, what Sparko said. He is not entirely 100% wrong again.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                    I think that would be impossible to claim since none of us, even as Christians, agree about everything all the time, much LESS Christians and non-Christians. It's as bad as the nebulous and meaningless term "hate speech." PC, like hate speech, is simply speech I (predominantly the political left) don't like and have the authority and/or influence to make you stop saying it. And you do realize that in today's cultural and political climate, PC is the major factor (other than spiritual forces) that cultivates animosity towards Christianity?
                    Going by the definition provided in post 61, I don't see what redeeming value anybody would find in the sort of speech PC culture discourages, jeremiads aside.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      Going by the definition provided in post 61, I don't see what redeeming value anybody would find in the sort of speech PC culture discourages, jeremiads aside.
                      The "sort of speech" PC culture discourages is so nebulous and everchanging that you're never really sure which words are allowed to use, and which are forbidden. And then there's the professional victims and people being vicariously offended on the behalf of other that will use any excuse what so ever to find a way to take offense at your words, no matter how innocuous.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Going by the definition provided in post 61, I don't see what redeeming value anybody would find in the sort of speech PC culture discourages, jeremiads aside.
                        It's the slippery slope scenario where more and more words and phrases are added, and it never stops, which is what we're seeing now. Like Chrawnus said, it's everchanging, and apparently we're not a society that can rationally identify the distinguishing lines of what's acceptable and what isn't. It also doesn't help you have people that profit by exploiting it. Then you have cultural and political blowback as a result of it getting absurd, which is what we're seeing with Trump and the alt-right (which doesn't mean conventional or traditional conservatism, and why it's called "alternative" -- many of which were initially liberal forced to move more to the right away from progressivism as a result of PC). From there, you have PC in complete reverse, or a counter culture that will take the complete opposite extreme view just to counter it. And back and fourth until you virtually have a civil war and it starts to get violent, which is what we're seeing now.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          It's the slippery slope scenario where more and more words and phrases are added, and it never stops, which is what we're seeing now. Like Chrawnus said, it's everchanging, and apparently we're not a society that can rationally identify the distinguishing lines of what's acceptable and what isn't. It also doesn't help you have people that profit by exploiting it. Then you have cultural and political blowback as a result of it getting absurd, which is what we're seeing with Trump and the alt-right (which doesn't mean conventional or traditional conservatism, and why it's called "alternative" -- many of which were initially liberal forced to move more to the right away from progressivism as a result of PC). From there, you have PC in complete reverse, or a counter culture that will take the complete opposite extreme view just to counter it. And back and fourth until you virtually have a civil war and it starts to get violent, which is what we're seeing now.
                          When school kids aren't allowed to call each other boys and girls, and people get shamed for using pronouns like he and she.... yeah, the inmates were running the asylum.

                          Call Me ‘They’

                          The singular “they” is inclusive and flexible, and it breaks the stifling prison of gender expectations. Let’s all use it.


                          No, Just no.

                          Watch: CA State Senator Bans Use of “He/She” Pronouns, Can’t Even Follow Her Own Rules
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            When school kids aren't allowed to call each other boys and girls, and people get shamed for using pronouns like he and she.... yeah, the inmates were running the asylum.

                            Call Me ‘They’

                            The singular “they” is inclusive and flexible, and it breaks the stifling prison of gender expectations. Let’s all use it.

                            I agree! Let's all use "it" -- for those cases that can't decide between "he" and "she" on a biological basis.
                            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                            Beige Federalist.

                            Nationalist Christian.

                            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                            Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                            Justice for Matthew Perna!

                            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                              I agree! Let's all use "it" -- for those cases that can't decide between "he" and "she" on a biological basis.
                              I learned long ago, when asking a new mother about her newborn baby's name.... "What's its name?" - and that cold steely stare --- "'IT' is a GIRL!"
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I learned long ago, when asking a new mother about her newborn baby's name.... "What's its name?" - and that cold steely stare --- "'IT' is a GIRL!"
                                I'm afraid I would have returned something along the lines of, "Interesting. But that didn't answer my question."
                                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                                Beige Federalist.

                                Nationalist Christian.

                                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                                Comment

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