Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

[Adrift]

It's this sort of ignorant statement that shows you have literally zero clue on the subject.

Here's literally the first sentence in wikipedia on Left-wing politics:

Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4]

This is basic stuff.

Sure, people who otherwise consider themselves left-wing are capable of doing terrible stuff or acting in ways not consistent with that label. Just as Christians are quite capable of acting un-Christ-like.

Does it hurt your feelings because you don't like the idea that morality might be relevant to politics and that some politics might actually be good and some might be actually evil? Sorry if you don't like the facts that the right-wing, overall, in terms of what it inherently stands for, is evil.

What a stupid statement. The distribution of power is exactly what the left-right continuum is all about. Whether power is distributed among the many (left-wing) or consolidated in the hands of the few who rule over the many (right-wing) has been a core issue for centuries. Shutting your eyes to that is just sad.

Historians literally label the Jacobin leftist reign a dictatorship (see Interpreting the French Revolution by François Furet, Twelve Who Ruled: The Year of Terror in the French Revolution by R. R. Palmer, and The Terror in the French Revolution by Hugh Gough). They definitely challenged traditional hierarchies, but in doing so instated their own. As a centrist, your diatribe against the right doesn't effect my feelings at all, it's as a history lover that I've got issues.

[Zara]

Um we have 60 times the population you do. And a lot larger cities with gang problems which account for a lot of gun homicides, and are mostly illegal guns that you would not get rid of with any regulations because they are criminals. Of the legal gun owners, the homicides are usually domestic disputes (bar fight, husband killing wife for cheating) and they don't pose a danger to the population in general. Mass killings are actually pretty rare considering the size of the country, they just tend to be newsworthy so when one happens you will hear all about it for a week or two. But as has been said already in this thread, if someone is bent on mass murder, they can easily find other means: fire like the Japanese guy this weekend, trucks and vans like in France and the UK, bombs like in Israel, or poison like the subway Sarin Gas attacks in Tokyo.

Rare compared to where? This is almost nonsensical. Germany has a murder rate of 1.0, thus 5x less than that of the US. It has a huge population. I could cobble together all of Western Europe and still make the point.

Rouge is crying about people not caring about other types of murder. Which is an absurd accusation. But, hey look, the US is a backwards dangerous place where murder is 5x as common as in Western Europe. Why not do something about it before judging other peoples' more successful public order practices.

Here is some perspective: https://econjwatch.org/File+download...f?mimetype=pdf

[Zara]

And ironically, it's the cities with the strictest gun laws that have by far the most gun violence.

No, the irony is that the countries with the strictest gun laws have some of the lowest level of murder rates. Many of those countries have cities - some of them are even quite dense. Much like many people in this thread.

[Mountain Man]

Good news for gun control advocates in the US (assuming their goal is to improve peace and safety and not simply tamp down a basic human right):

...the high water mark for firearm murders was 1994 while 2017, the most recent year with complete data on incidents, shows a sharp drop. There were “16,136 [firearm murders] in 1994” but only “10,982” in 2017.

And if looked at in terms of the murder rate, instead of simply the raw murder numbers, the drop in firearm homicides is even more evident.

For example, the FBI calculated “6.2 firearm murders per 100,000 people” in 1994, while the murder rate in 2017 was 3.38. And the murder rate was even lower than 3.38 in 2014.

An interesting correlation with the drop in firearm murders is the incredible expansion of private firearm ownership. In other words, the number of privately-owned firearms was increasing at the same time that the number of firearm murders was plummeting.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...last-25-years/

[lilpixieofterror]

Historians literally label the Jacobin leftist reign a dictatorship (see Interpreting the French Revolution by François Furet, Twelve Who Ruled: The Year of Terror in the French Revolution by R. R. Palmer, and The Terror in the French Revolution by Hugh Gough). They definitely challenged traditional hierarchies, but in doing so instated their own. As a centrist, your diatribe against the right doesn't effect my feelings at all, it's as a history lover that I've got issues.

Starlight likes to define anything and everything bad as right wing and everything good as left wing. Which is just crazy since left, right, and center shift and vary country to country and some pretty terrible things (Nazism, The French Revolution, the USSR, etc) come from ‘left wing’ ideals. Nobody can claim to be violent free, the best you can do is see what ideas work best.

[Cow Poke]

Good news for gun control advocates in the US (assuming their goal is to improve peace and safety and not simply tamp down a basic human right):

...the high water mark for firearm murders was 1994 while 2017, the most recent year with complete data on incidents, shows a sharp drop. There were “16,136 [firearm murders] in 1994” but only “10,982” in 2017.

And if looked at in terms of the murder rate, instead of simply the raw murder numbers, the drop in firearm homicides is even more evident.

For example, the FBI calculated “6.2 firearm murders per 100,000 people” in 1994, while the murder rate in 2017 was 3.38. And the murder rate was even lower than 3.38 in 2014.

An interesting correlation with the drop in firearm murders is the incredible expansion of private firearm ownership. In other words, the number of privately-owned firearms was increasing at the same time that the number of firearm murders was plummeting.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...last-25-years/

I wonder if you were to take criminal gang activity out of that --- people who very obviously should NOT have guns...

[Starlight]

It's just been announced today that New Zealand is likely going to get another set of new gun laws...

Firearms register among second raft of gun law reforms announced by PM:

Firearm owners will have to register their guns under a second raft of proposed law reform.... Other reforms announced on Monday include: halving the ten-year licence expiry to five-years; barring visitors to New Zealand from purchasing firearms; more powers for police to take guns; requiring a firearm licence for ammunition and parts purchases, and registering the country's estimated 260 gun clubs...

The ability for firearms owners to privately buy and sell guns will remain, and new rules around advertising firearms will be put in place...

The new bill is yet to be drafted. Nash expected it would be introduced in August, with a three month select committee process to follow.

[Starlight]

Starlight likes to define anything and everything bad as right wing and everything good as left wing.

Sure. Just like some on this site like to define everything good as Christian and everything bad as Not True Christian.

My view is that there are major differences between 'left' and 'right', that morality matters in politics, that there are objective facts about which political views are better and how they affect people's lives, and that it's not just a 'he-says' 'she-says' thing. And just as not all those who say they are Christians act Christ-like, not all those who say or think they are on the 'left' necessarily act consistently with it. Many people can, and do, have pretty inconsistent political positions, and label themselves inaccurately. That doesn't change the fact that the left in politics is fundamentally good, as it attempts to distribute power to everyone, and has been responsible for bending the arc of history toward justice, as it has fought for democracy and against slavery and for distributing rights and power to all people, while the right in politics is fundamentally evil as it attempts to consolidate power in the hands of the few and have some rule over others.

[Tassman]

Good news for gun control advocates in the US (assuming their goal is to improve peace and safety and not simply tamp down a basic human right):

...the high water mark for firearm murders was 1994 while 2017, the most recent year with complete data on incidents, shows a sharp drop. There were “16,136 [firearm murders] in 1994” but only “10,982” in 2017.

And if looked at in terms of the murder rate, instead of simply the raw murder numbers, the drop in firearm homicides is even more evident.

For example, the FBI calculated “6.2 firearm murders per 100,000 people” in 1994, while the murder rate in 2017 was 3.38. And the murder rate was even lower than 3.38 in 2014.

An interesting correlation with the drop in firearm murders is the incredible expansion of private firearm ownership. In other words, the number of privately-owned firearms was increasing at the same time that the number of firearm murders was plummeting.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...last-25-years/

And yet, in Australia where guns are banned, the number of gun-related deaths is 1.04 per thousand whereas in the USA, where gun ownership is common, the number of gun related deaths is 19.51 per thousand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

In short, “US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries…”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26551975

The figures speak for themselves.

[lilpixieofterror]

Sure. Just like some on this site like to define everything good as Christian and everything bad as Not True Christian.

And it just happens that the most blood soaked political ideologies of the 20th century are ones with an atheist worldview. Funny how that works.

My view is that there are major differences between 'left' and 'right', that morality matters in politics, that there are objective facts about which political views are better and how they affect people's lives, and that it's not just a 'he-says' 'she-says' thing. And just as not all those who say they are Christians act Christ-like, not all those who say or think they are on the 'left' necessarily act consistently with it. Many people can, and do, have pretty inconsistent political positions, and label themselves inaccurately. That doesn't change the fact that the left in politics is fundamentally good, as it attempts to distribute power to everyone, and has been responsible for bending the arc of history toward justice, as it has fought for democracy and against slavery and for distributing rights and power to all people, while the right in politics is fundamentally evil as it attempts to consolidate power in the hands of the few and have some rule over others.

Which still doesn’t change the fact that right and left wing are not set in stone and change over time and country to country. Your simple thinking is stupid anyway in light of the fact that ideas of individual liberty and separation of powers currently finds itself as a right wing position, in the US. It’s also stupid when you consider that consolidation of power was done under left wing politics in the 19th century, under The French Revolution and in the 20th with the spread of communism and fascism. Keep showing you don’t understand history. Far more violence was inflicted on the world, under left wing governments, over the past 200 years.

[lilpixieofterror]

And yet, in Australia where guns are banned, the number of gun-related deaths is 1.04 per thousand whereas in the USA, where gun ownership is common, the number of gun related deaths is 19.51 per thousand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

In short, “US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries…”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26551975

The figures speak for themselves.

I know tazzy is ignoring me, after I embarrassed him all those years ago in his butchering of facts, but Tazzy is flat ignoring that nearly 60% of US firearm deaths are the result of suicide with much of the rest of the 40% being the results of inner city gang warfare. Taking that into mind tells us that Tazzy is playing fast and lose with the facts, so he can paint a false narrative. In reality, staying out of crime and not being suicidal will drastically reduce your odds of being shot, in the US.

[Mountain Man]

And yet, in Australia where guns are banned, the number of gun-related deaths is 1.04 per thousand whereas in the USA, where gun ownership is common, the number of gun related deaths is 19.51 per thousand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

In short, “US homicide rates were 7.0 times higher than in other high-income countries…”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26551975

The figures speak for themselves.

The fact that Australia's gun ban did nothing at all to reduce overall rates of homicide and violent crime which are higher now than before the ban also speaks for itself.

[lilpixieofterror]

The fact that Australia's gun ban did nothing at all to reduce overall rates of homicide and violent crime which are higher now than before the ban also speaks for itself.

Shhh, it doesn’t matter if almost 60% of US firearm deaths are the results of suicide and most of the murders are the results of groups of criminals deciding to kill each other. All that matters is gun=bad and nothing will change that reality.

[rogue06]

The fact that Australia's gun ban did nothing at all to reduce overall rates of homicide and violent crime which are higher now than before the ban also speaks for itself.

B-but, but fewer folks are using guns to kill each other and that is all the matters. I mean who cares about those dying by other means just as long as firearms are being used.

[Zara]

B-but, but fewer folks are using guns to kill each other and that is all the matters. I mean who cares about those dying by other means just as long as firearms are being used.

B-but, is where MM is pulling his statistics from - the murder rate in Australia fell from 1.7 per 100,000 in 1996 to 0.9 per 100,000 in 2018.

How is the US murder rate, ohh 5.3 per 100,000, that's right, you aren't crying about that.

Make America great again, by becoming Australia and its correct public order policies.