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Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

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  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    I thought it was more or less common knowledge that the crack epidemic was at its height in the 80s.
    Today it's opioids and meth. Just as bad if not worse.







    Side note: have you heard about folks getting a meth-like high from ingesting Wasp spray? The idiots on one of the local news programs even explained how to do it although I'm certain that information is available on the interwebz.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Where are you getting that from? Any sources? Because crack is still a big problem and really has nothing to do with guns any more than any other drugs. And again, that would be criminals who are using the guns they probably bought illegally. Which they would do even if you outlawed guns. Do you think outlaws will just stop using guns if they are outlawed?
      Gun crime by criminals is almost non-existent in New Zealand. Violent crime is low. Same in Germany. So yes, regulating guns reduces gun crime - even among criminals. This is just common sense.

      The cause of the reduction in gun crime in the US could be attributed to factors not relevant to 'more guns'. Was it the crack epidemic, who knows, it's just as speculative as your association.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Zara View Post
        Gun crime by criminals is almost non-existent in New Zealand. Violent crime is low. Same in Germany. So yes, regulating guns reduces gun crime - even among criminals. This is just common sense.

        The cause of the reduction in gun crime in the US could be attributed to factors not relevant to 'more guns'. Was it the crack epidemic, who knows, it's just as speculative as your association.
        So in other words you just make up stuff and present it as fact? I guess we can just ignore anything you say from now on unless you provide a source. Good to know.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Today it's opioids and meth. Just as bad if not worse.
          Hitting a slightly different demographic though, isn't it?

          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Side note: have you heard about folks getting a meth-like high from ingesting Wasp spray? The idiots on one of the local news programs even explained how to do it although I'm certain that information is available on the interwebz.
          No I hadn't. I've done meth once (back in my crazy drug experimentation phase). I get why it's addictive, but I'd never huff wasp spray. People be crazy yo.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zara View Post
            Gun crime by criminals is almost non-existent in New Zealand. Violent crime is low. Same in Germany. So yes, regulating guns reduces gun crime - even among criminals. This is just common sense.

            The cause of the reduction in gun crime in the US could be attributed to factors not relevant to 'more guns'. Was it the crack epidemic, who knows, it's just as speculative as your association.
            Or you just don’t know what you’re talking about and flat ignore the reality that the US has lots of population centers, has more disposable wealth, and an increased amount of drug/human trafficking that leads to increases in crime rates. Nah, those don’t play into your beliefs and are therefore ignored.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • I think the only valid comparison would be homicides by legal gun owners, since even if you heavily regulated or outlawed guns, criminals would still have them. And you shouldn't count suicides which account for most gun deaths.

              studies have shown that 8 out of 10 gun crimes are committed by illegal gun owners.

              ScreenHunter_.jpg

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.935ded1b0a28

              And most homicides are committed by handguns, not AR-15 or "assault" rifles - and neither Australia or New Zealand are banning handguns.

              ScreenHunter_.jpg
              https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s..._2009-2013.xls
              Last edited by Sparko; 07-22-2019, 10:21 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                I think the only valid comparison would be homicides by legal gun owners, since even if you heavily regulated or outlawed guns, criminals would still have them. And you shouldn't count suicides which account for most gun deaths.

                studies have shown that 8 out of 10 gun crimes are committed by illegal gun owners.

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]38519[/ATTACH]

                https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.935ded1b0a28

                And most homicides are committed by handguns, not AR-15 or "assault" rifles - and neither Australia or New Zealand are banning handguns.

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]38520[/ATTACH]
                https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s..._2009-2013.xls
                From the article:

                "We have a lot of people with a lot of guns," Fabio said, referencing statistics on the large number of guns in circulation. "And some of them aren't keeping track of them for different reasons — maybe because they have a lot of them and they don't use them that often."
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Charles View Post
                  From the article:
                  What's your point? I have a friend that owns probably 30 guns. He has never killed anyone or has any plans to.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    I think the only valid comparison would be homicides by legal gun owners, since even if you heavily regulated or outlawed guns, criminals would still have them. And you shouldn't count suicides which account for most gun deaths.

                    studies have shown that 8 out of 10 gun crimes are committed by illegal gun owners.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]38519[/ATTACH]

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.935ded1b0a28

                    And most homicides are committed by handguns, not AR-15 or "assault" rifles - and neither Australia or New Zealand are banning handguns.

                    [ATTACH=CONFIG]38520[/ATTACH]
                    https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s..._2009-2013.xls
                    Last time I looked into this, perpetrators who were carrying a firearm owned by someone else were acquiring said gun from a family member or friend who owned the gun legally, so kind of a loophole there.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      What's your point? I have a friend that owns probably 30 guns. He has never killed anyone or has any plans to.
                      But others could steal his guns and kill with them.
                      "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And it’s an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Last time I looked into this, perpetrators who were carrying a firearm owned by someone else were acquiring said gun from a family member or friend who owned the gun legally, so kind of a loophole there.
                        They were taking how they got the gun into account. from the article:

                        "They found that in approximately 8 out of 10 cases, the perpetrator was not a lawful gun owner but rather in illegal possession of a weapon that belonged to someone else. The researchers were primarily interested in how these guns made their way from a legal purchase — at a firearm dealer or via a private sale — to the scene of the crime.

                        More than 30 percent of the guns that ended up at crime scenes had been stolen, according to Fabio's research. But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime.

                        It's also likely that many guns on the black market got there via straw purchases — where a person purchases a gun from a dealer without disclosing that they're buying it for someone else. This is illegal under federal law. One potential sign that straw purchasing is a factor in the Pittsburgh data: Forty-four percent of the gun owners who were identified in 2008 did not respond to police attempts to contact them."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          They were taking how they got the gun into account. from the article:

                          "They found that in approximately 8 out of 10 cases, the perpetrator was not a lawful gun owner but rather in illegal possession of a weapon that belonged to someone else. The researchers were primarily interested in how these guns made their way from a legal purchase — at a firearm dealer or via a private sale — to the scene of the crime.

                          More than 30 percent of the guns that ended up at crime scenes had been stolen, according to Fabio's research. But more than 40 percent of those stolen guns weren't reported by the owners as stolen until after police contacted them when the gun was used in a crime.

                          It's also likely that many guns on the black market got there via straw purchases — where a person purchases a gun from a dealer without disclosing that they're buying it for someone else. This is illegal under federal law. One potential sign that straw purchasing is a factor in the Pittsburgh data: Forty-four percent of the gun owners who were identified in 2008 did not respond to police attempts to contact them."
                          Yeah, I get that it's illegal either way, but it's interesting that the majority (or at least a good portion) of illegally obtained weapons may have been acquired by friends/families/associates who owned them legally.

                          From this article for instance,

                          About 48 percent of state prison inmates surveyed said they got the gun they used from a family member, friend, gun store, pawn shop, flea market, or gun show. Most states only require a background check if the purchase happens at a gun store, according to the Giffords Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

                          Forty percent of state prison inmates admitted they obtained the gun illegally on the black market, from a drug dealer, or by stealing it.


                          It's illegal to murder people no matter how the gun was acquired, so I suppose it's a bit of a wash.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                            Yeah, I get that it's illegal either way, but it's interesting that the majority (or at least a good portion) of illegally obtained weapons may have been acquired by friends/families/associates who owned them legally.
                            People tend to steal from those they know just like overwhelmingly the majority of murder victims knew their killer.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              Yeah, I get that it's illegal either way, but it's interesting that the majority (or at least a good portion) of illegally obtained weapons may have been acquired by friends/families/associates who owned them legally.

                              From this article for instance,

                              [box]About 48 percent of state prison inmates surveyed said they got the gun they used from a family member, friend, gun store, pawn shop, flea market, or gun show. .
                              um that pretty much covers every method, legal and illegal.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                um that pretty much covers every method, legal and illegal.
                                Doesn't seem to cover burglary or black market

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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