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Thread: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

    Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

    The Kiwis are rebelling?

    Once again, responding to a horrendous crime by inflicting knee-jerk, authoritarian restrictions on innocent people proves to be an ineffective means of convincing people to obey. Specifically, New Zealand's government—which also stepped up censorship and domestic surveillance after bloody attacks on two Christchurch mosques earlier this year—is running into stiff resistance to new gun rules from firearms owners who are slow to surrender now-prohibited weapons and will probably never turn them in.

    Officials should have seen it coming.

    "Police are anticipating a number of people with banned firearms in their possession won't surrender them," Stuff reported at the end of May, based on internal government documents.

    As of last week, only around 700 weapons had been turned over. There are an estimated 1.5 million guns—with an unknown number subject to the new prohibition on semiautomatic firearms—in the country overall.

    Traditionally relaxed in its approach to firearms regulation, and enjoying a low crime rate, New Zealand has no firearms registration rule. That means authorities have no easy way of knowing what guns are in circulation or who owns them.

    "These weapons are unlikely to be confiscated by police because they don't know of their existence," Philippa Yasbek of Gun Control NZ admitted. "These will become black-market weapons if their owners choose not to comply with the law and become criminals instead."

    Yasbek's organization advocates registering all guns in private hands. But that won't help with gathering guns already in the possession of owners appalled by the government's attack on the rights of innocent people—government attacks, it's worth noting, that come in response to the crimes of one man who explicitly anticipated just such a response.

    "I chose firearms for the affect it would have on social discourse," the killer wrote in a document he released to explain his crimes. "The gun owners of New Zealand are a beaten, miserable bunch of baby boomers, who have long since given up the fight. When was the last time they won increased rights? Their loss was inevitable. I just accelerated things a bit."

    Politicians fulfilled the murderer's predictions with panic-driven legislation.

    That gun owners would, in large numbers, defy restrictions should have been anticipated by anybody who knows the history of government attempts to disarm their subjects—or who just glanced across the Tasman Sea to Australia.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
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    This is Exhibit A in why mass gun confiscation simply isn't going to happen in the US. It didn't work there, where ownership rates are lower and the gun culture that exists in the US doesn't exist. Even if some future government tried it... good luck going anywhere with it.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  3. Amen Cow Poke, Teallaura, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    A good example of why we don't want gun registration in the USA.

    Wow, 700 out of 1.5 Million? It's almost as if New Zealanders don't agree with their government or something.

    Hopefully NZ will take notice of the mass objection and repeal their idiotic ban.

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    A good example of why we don't want gun registration in the USA.

    Wow, 700 out of 1.5 Million? It's almost as if New Zealanders don't agree with their government or something.

    Hopefully NZ will take notice of the mass objection and repeal their idiotic ban.
    I wonder how starlight is taking the news that his country is chock-full of crazed right-wing gun nuts.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  6. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I wonder how starlight is taking the news that his country is chock-full of crazed right-wing gun nuts.
    Not through surprise, I'm sure. If you're that far to the left, everybody is right wing.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  8. Amen Sparko, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Not through surprise, I'm sure. If you're that far to the left, everybody is right wing.
    Yeah when you call Joseph Stalin a right-winger and then double and triple down trying to defend it

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    I wonder how starlight is taking the news that his country is chock-full of crazed right-wing gun nuts.
    I posted this with him in mind.
    I have called you my friends.... Jesus
    Jn 15:15

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    The article that the OP article refers to makes it sound like it is mostly a price issue, with people wanting more money for their guns.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/...n-control-law/

    But I think it is more about not wanting to give up their guns at any price.

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    The long gun registry was a multi-billion dollar fiasco here. Many people hid their guns and Stephen Harper did away with it when he became PM.

    I am ignorant and indifferent as to whether NZ's proposed gun laws are with hand guns and long guns, or what. Hand guns were already banned in Canada before the long gun registry was put in to place, but it sure doesn't stop the criminals from getting them. I doubt it would work in other countries either, unless it is forced compliance by military measures.


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    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    The article that the OP article refers to makes it sound like it is mostly a price issue, with people wanting more money for their guns.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/06/...n-control-law/

    But I think it is more about not wanting to give up their guns at any price.
    It is partly a price issue, and partly people reacting to a badly thought out knee jerk law.

    The price side of things this post covers it:

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...96090850405334
    Source: Kiwi Gun Blog


    My name is John Herbert and I was one of the experts involved with KPMG led pricing scheme for the buyback. I am also part of the Firearms Community Advisory Forum that works with Police to advise on legislation etc.

    There are some things you need to know.

    The published document has errors and omissions. This occurred because of the following reasons.

    1. Like the legislation it was rushed. All the pricing was done over one 5 hour period. 5 hours to get a possible 1 billion dollar buy back correct. KPMG made it clear this was our one shot at it.
    2. The pricing was not checked post the meeting by the experts but was presented as written by KPMG staff who were constantly being corrected by the experts during the 5 hours we were doing the pricing. The KPMG staff had no firearms experience at all and did not understand the terminology or descriptions.
    3. There were separate prices for E category firearms and A category firearms. This is not reflected in the document.
    4. The experts all agreed that accessories specifically magazines should be purchased at full retail, KPMG agreed. 70% means that most people will get less than what the paid
    5. The pricing for collectable Semi Autos like M1 Garand’s M1 Carbines and German WW2 rifles is incorrect. It was made clear to KPMG that these rifles are appreciating in value and that a 95 70 25% value rating does not reflect their actual value. Simply put a Garand is 70 years old now, how can new or near new be applied in this instance? The pricing given for these collectables was based on the documented sale prices of these rifles over the last two years. Any Garand in reasonable condition will be a $6k plus rifle.
    6. The parts list has many omissions, again everything was rushed, but some items have just not been included. There is no parts list for many rifles L1A1, G3, M14 etc. Nothing for rifle stocks and barrels for many rifles.
    7. The document has ambiguous descriptions and double entries; again if it was fact checked by the experts this could have been fixed. As an example there are multiple entries for SVT40 rifles as well as for M1 Garand’s. Bushmaster AR15 rifles don’t even have a price, (plenty of them in NZ).
    8. Experts agreed with KPMG that individual valuations could take place and the fee should be fair, say $50. $120 is not fair.
    9. There is nothing published that addresses pricing of Semi Auto bespoke accessories like AR15 only Scopes, slings, Bayonets magazine pouches etc. These items are all useless with the rifles and owners will want compensation at market value.

    Again we have a rushed half [censored] process that says to firearm owners we don’t care about you and we don’t care to understand what your assets are worth. When the Australians who were involved with their buyback came over in March April to advise they made it very clear to the Government and Police “You need to pay full price if you want compliance”. Clearly this has been ignored. Many in the firearms community and all involved in the pricing are appalled.

    The published pricing has dramatically increased the chances of Noncompliance. Noncompliance is the worst case scenario and Police will attest to that. In NZ we expect things to be fair; when the Govt buys your house so they can put a road through they pay market value, why is this model not being applied to firearms owners who it must be said have done nothing wrong here. As a community we are being treated as second class citizens, our opinions are not being listened to and our assets are being taken at below market rates. We believe the low prices reflect the governments fear over the cost of the buyback, we believe they know full well this will cost over 1 billion dollars but will it make NZ a safer place? Not when the likelihood of a big Grey Gun market is rapidly becoming a reality.

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  14. Amen Littlejoe amen'd this post.

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