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Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

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  • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
    You really completely delusional about what is left and right of politics.
    LOL.

    The only right wing journalist is Mike Hosking.
    Well can we agree he is a walking talking National Party-Political broadcast and in every way extremely biased and extremely right-wing, and that it's totally unreasonably that of all journalists in NZ that someone so absurdly biased gets given the most air-time and all the prime-time slots?

    The majority of rest are all left to very left liberals.
    Hahahahaha. Wow you're ignorant. That's just sad.
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Well can we agree he is a walking talking National Party-Political broadcast and in every way extremely biased and extremely right-wing, and that it's totally unreasonably that of all journalists in NZ that someone so absurdly biased gets given the most air-time and all the prime-time slots?
      he gets those slots because his shows tend to be the top rated ones. Which mean more people are choosing to actually listen to him than the alternatives.
      You might want to think about what that means.
      Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
      1 Corinthians 16:13

      "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
      -Ben Witherington III

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        You have a media that's quite polarized between the two major parties.
        Our entire country is quite polarized.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Our entire country is quite polarized.
          I think I've commented in the past that I think that one of the US's biggest problem is the apparent loss of the center
          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
          1 Corinthians 16:13

          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
          -Ben Witherington III

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            The "over 500" is guns and accessories. and less than 500 if you can do maths.
            https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/...n-christchurch
            Source: Radio NZ

            Police said 169 firearms owners handed in a total of 224 prohibited firearms, and 217 parts and accessories, with $433,682 compensated.

            © Copyright Original Source



            You really completely delusional about what is left and right of politics. The only right wing journalist is Mike Hosking.
            The majority of rest are all left to very left liberals.
            These buyback programs are all about feeling good, not actually doing anything meaningful.

            Gun buybacks popular but ineffective, experts say

            It's such a tiny percent of guns on the streets, and the people most likely to turn in guns are probably the least likely to use them criminally.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Raphael View Post
              I think I've commented in the past that I think that one of the US's biggest problem is the apparent loss of the center
              Or, maybe instead of the "silent majority", we have a "silent center". IF, in fact, they exist at all.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                These buyback programs are all about feeling good, not actually doing anything meaningful.

                Gun buybacks popular but ineffective, experts say
                As I understand it, you're talking about a totally different type of buyback program. The examples you give from America, AFAICT, are where the gun laws haven't changed with regard to what guns are legal, but where someone in govt just gets an idea along the lines of "maybe if we paid people for their guns, there'd be less guns in circulation?" Obviously that doesn't work particularly usefully because people are continuing to purchase the same kinds of guns in stores even while the buyback is running, so the total numbers of those types of guns in circulation doesn't change. Nothing stops a person selling an old gun and using the money they got from the buyback to help them buy a new gun of exactly the same kind.

                NZ's buyback, and that done in Australia some years back, is different, because they are changing the law so certain types of gun are now illegal. Those types of gun will no longer be able to be sold in stores, hence there are no new instances of those types of gun going into circulation. The buyback itself which is specifically only for the newly-illegal types of gun then reduces the total number of those types of guns in circulation. So it succeeds in a way the US version doesn't. The goal is to minimize the number of these particular types of gun in circulation, and the law change and buyback will achieve that.
                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Raphael View Post

                  You really completely delusional about what is left and right of politics. The only right wing journalist is Mike Hosking.
                  The majority of rest are all left to very left liberals.
                  To someone who repeatedly insisted that the communist dictator Joseph Stalin was a right winger, virtually everyone is "very right-wing" in his eyes.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Yes. That is the the outlier in your country. But if you look at the 30-years before and the 30-years after, the death toll from mass killings is roughly same, and your rates of violent crime, homicide, and suicide are higher now than before the ban.
                    The Port Arthur massacre wasn’t the “outlier”, it is the measure of what has been achieved by the firearm ban. As with the current action in NZ, Australia’s decisive action in the form of the gun-buy-back program has prevented a similar mass-shooting reoccurring.

                    So on balance, banning guns did nothing at all to improve peace and safety in Australia. That's a fact.
                    Demonstrably false. “In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016. That’s a fall from 3.4 deaths per 100,000 people to 1 per 100,000 in 2016,”

                    https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases...ent-gun-deaths

                    This compared to the USA and its large gun-ownership with “10.6 deaths per 100,000 persons)" in 2013.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
                    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Tassman View Post

                      Demonstrably false. “In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016. That’s a fall from 3.4 deaths per 100,000 people to 1 per 100,000 in 2016,”

                      https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases...ent-gun-deaths

                      This compared to the USA and its large gun-ownership with “10.6 deaths per 100,000 persons)" in 2013.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_vi..._United_States
                      MM was very specifically talking about the overall homicide rate not having changed. Thank you for illustrating what I said earlier:
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      All they care about is that those being killed aren't dying by gun violence. They don't seem to be concerned about those killed by other means. Apparently it makes them less dead or something.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        MM was very specifically talking about the overall homicide rate not having changed. Thank you for illustrating what I said earlier:
                        A point not worth making because MM excluded the “outlier”, as he called it, of the Port Arthur massacre and with it the potential for further mass shootings.

                        “In Australia we went from 614 firearm deaths in 1990 to 274 in 2016. That’s a fall from 3.4 deaths per 100,000 people to 1 per 100,000 in 2016,” he said.

                        Dr Franklin said the Australian National Firearms Agreement, enacted following the murder of 35 people in Tasmania in 1996 by a lone gunman armed with high-powered weapons, has been closely linked with declines in firearm deaths in Australia.

                        “We’ve seen a decline particularly in firearm suicides and an absence of mass shootings. It’s a pattern we see in South Africa and Brazil, with tougher gun laws leading to a fall in firearm deaths in those places too,” he said.

                        https://www.jcu.edu.au/news/releases...ent-gun-deaths

                        ALL murders are concerning. But the absence of potential mass shootings is a good thing not a bad thing. You ought to try it in the USA, given your dismal record. It works for us.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          MM was very specifically talking about the overall homicide rate not having changed. Thank you for illustrating what I said earlier:
                          His argument at this point is the equivalent of putting his fingers in his ears and saying, "La la la ... I can't hear you!"
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            His argument at this point is the equivalent of putting his fingers in his ears and saying, "La la la ... I can't hear you!"
                            And then, repeating the same stuff over and over and over, thinking that makes his 'points' more truerererer.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              To someone who repeatedly insisted that the communist dictator Joseph Stalin was a right winger, virtually everyone is "very right-wing" in his eyes.
                              LOL, it's amusing how stuck on this idea you are, and how you just can't get over it, and how wrong you are.

                              I don't think virtually everyone is a right winger. Not at all. There are plenty of left-wing people and groups. I'm left wing. The party I vote for is left wing. Bernie Sanders is left-wing. Jeremy Corbin is left wing. The Democratic Socialists of America are left wing etc. There are loads of left-wingers in the world, and plenty of posters on this forum who are left-wing. The left-wing right-wing terminology wouldn't even make sense if there were no left-wingers.

                              My point about Stalin, that you insist on misinterpreting, presumably because your brain is slightly smaller than a peanut, was that his government was unusual and doesn't fall neatly onto the normal simplified left-right political spectrum and isn't easily classified. His government was very unusual in very many ways, and had many different aspects some of which that would normally be classified as left wing (e.g. some of how they did economics) and some aspects that would normally be classified as right-wing (e.g. their authoritarian/dictatorial approach). My view is that Stalin's government doesn't fit neatly onto the usual left-right political spectrum so I think calling it 'left-wing' as many people do is unhelpful and inaccurate. I understand you can't mentally cope with that idea because you grew up being told that the evil commies were 'left-wing' and so that is the yard-stick you use to measure the term 'left-wing', so when someone suggests to you that maybe that was mostly silly US cold-war propaganda and that they weren't exactly 'left-wing' in reality, you can't really cope with the idea, because you're not very good at thinking.

                              Actually, the terms 'left' and 'right' wing in politics go back to the 18th century, and far predate Stalin. Stalin's government is not at all the yardstick for what is or isn't left-wing. Stalin's government was completely novel in the history of politics, and had aspects that were 'left' and aspects that were 'right' and in general doesn't really fall anywhere on the older left-right spectrum. Libertarianism is another viewpoint that doesn't fall on the traditional linear left-right spectrum. This is why most political scientists today think a 2-d political spectrum is more useful for characterizing positions than the traditional 1-d left-right line. A 2-d spectrum adds an extra dimension perpendicular to the traditional left-right axis, so allows them to chart communism and libertarianism in a meaningful way.

                              And that, is quite, quite different, to saying I don't think anyone's a left winger which is something I would never say or think. You make yourself look like an idiot by pretending that's what I think. Left wing has been a meaningful term in politics for several centuries and usefully describes lots of people and groups.
                              Last edited by Starlight; 07-17-2019, 07:39 AM.
                              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                                My point about Stalin, that you insist on misinterpreting, presumably because your brain is slightly smaller than a peanut...
                                I have Rogue's brain in a jar on my bookshelf - it's at LEAST as big as a ping pong ball.
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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