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Thread: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

  1. #261
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Hey! Not all of us enjoy it. I say get rid of them already. But that won't happen in my lifetime. Americans have an almost spiritual connection to guns.
    I detest gun culture with every bone in my body, but I recognize that any attempt to actually get rid of them will backfire. When you have high numbers of people who will literally give their lives to hold onto their arsenals, it's clear there's no fix.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  2. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  3. #262
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Never said it did.
    Never said you said it did. I was just making a random point, it wasn't directed at anyone specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    But it goes a very long way in refuting the notion that having more guns in circulation will lead to more gun-related violence since the evidence shows that this is definitely not the case.
    True, see my reply to Sparko.

  4. #263
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Criminals won't turn in their guns. And there are so many guns in the USA that even if they repealed the 2nd amendment and outlawed guns, and even stopped the manufacture of guns, they would not ever get rid of them. And in this age of 3D printing, anyone can make their own gun. And making bullets is just as easy.
    I think given enough time guns will either break or become so hard to obtain that criminals will be forced to look for less deadly alternatives. If it takes 100/200 years to finally clean up the gun issue, I think it'd be worth it, but I think we'd see results on a national level sooner than that. Also, as we've discussed previously, criminals are unlikely to obtain 3D printers, the printers themselves and the material to print with are relatively expensive, and it's not like you can build very rugged guns with them anyways (perhaps in the future, but we're limited to plastic guns currently that don't hold up too well after a few shots). If it comes to a future where we have to seriously worry about 3D guns, I say we cross that bridge when it becomes a real threat. As it is, normal guns are way way too easy to obtain.

  5. #264
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I think given enough time guns will either break or become so hard to obtain that criminals will be forced to look for less deadly alternatives. If it takes 100/200 years to finally clean up the gun issue, I think it'd be worth it, but I think we'd see results on a national level sooner than that. Also, as we've discussed previously, criminals are unlikely to obtain 3D printers, the printers themselves and the material to print with are relatively expensive, and it's not like you can build very rugged guns with them anyways (perhaps in the future, but we're limited to plastic guns currently that don't hold up too well after a few shots). If it comes to a future where we have to seriously worry about 3D guns, I say we cross that bridge when it becomes a real threat. As it is, normal guns are way way too easy to obtain.
    Lots of today’s tech was once too expensive or just a pipe dream at one point. Cell phones, microwaves, computers, LCD TVs, etc are just a few examples that have gone from luxury items to common household appliances.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  6. #265
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I think given enough time guns will either break or become so hard to obtain that criminals will be forced to look for less deadly alternatives. If it takes 100/200 years to finally clean up the gun issue, I think it'd be worth it, but I think we'd see results on a national level sooner than that. Also, as we've discussed previously, criminals are unlikely to obtain 3D printers, the printers themselves and the material to print with are relatively expensive, and it's not like you can build very rugged guns with them anyways (perhaps in the future, but we're limited to plastic guns currently that don't hold up too well after a few shots). If it comes to a future where we have to seriously worry about 3D guns, I say we cross that bridge when it becomes a real threat. As it is, normal guns are way way too easy to obtain.
    Back in 2013 Solid Metal Concepts printed a metal 1911 semi-auto pistol. So the technology is already here.

    https://www.foxnews.com/tech/texas-f...nted-metal-gun

    And sure, right now it would be prohibitively expensive to print them, but costs come down and technology gets cheaper and easier to obtain. And not every crook would need one. Just the supplier. Or heck the supplier could just have a machine shop and make guns the old fashioned way all day long. If guns are outlawed, it becomes cost effective as the price of black market guns goes up.

  7. #266
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I think given enough time guns will either break or become so hard to obtain that criminals will be forced to look for less deadly alternatives. If it takes 100/200 years to finally clean up the gun issue, I think it'd be worth it, but I think we'd see results on a national level sooner than that. Also, as we've discussed previously, criminals are unlikely to obtain 3D printers, the printers themselves and the material to print with are relatively expensive, and it's not like you can build very rugged guns with them anyways (perhaps in the future, but we're limited to plastic guns currently that don't hold up too well after a few shots). If it comes to a future where we have to seriously worry about 3D guns, I say we cross that bridge when it becomes a real threat. As it is, normal guns are way way too easy to obtain.
    And yet once again I'll point out that using simple primitive techniques like the Lost Wax Casting method virtually anyone with access to a secluded area can manufacture respectable copies of even fully automatic firearms -- like Afghan tribesmen have been doing in mountain villages for generations.

    And a gun will last a good long time if properly looked after. My Browning 9mm High Powers date from the 1930s and still function flawlessly.

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  8. #267
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
    Lots of today’s tech was once too expensive or just a pipe dream at one point. Cell phones, microwaves, computers, LCD TVs, etc are just a few examples that have gone from luxury items to common household appliances.
    "I say we cross that bridge when it becomes a real threat." The idea that we should throw our hands up in the air because of future possibilities seems a little silly to me. I always think it's strange that the same people (not necessarily people here, but people in general) who are against a total ban of guns because "people will find a way" tend not to have the same view about laws restricting/banning hard drugs.

  9. #268
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Back in 2013 Solid Metal Concepts printed a metal 1911 semi-auto pistol. So the technology is already here.

    https://www.foxnews.com/tech/texas-f...nted-metal-gun

    And sure, right now it would be prohibitively expensive to print them, but costs come down and technology gets cheaper and easier to obtain. And not every crook would need one. Just the supplier. Or heck the supplier could just have a machine shop and make guns the old fashioned way all day long. If guns are outlawed, it becomes cost effective as the price of black market guns goes up.
    Yup. You'll be hearing about a machine shop or some garage-based operation getting busted like you used to here about stills being raided.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  10. #269
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    And yet once again I'll point out that using simple primitive techniques like the Lost Wax Casting method virtually anyone with access to a secluded area can manufacture respectable copies of even fully automatic firearms -- like Afghan tribesmen have been doing in mountain villages for generations.

    And a gun will last a good long time if properly looked after. My Browning 9mm High Powers date from the 1930s and still function flawlessly.
    I have a feeling that your average gang-banger looking to mow down a rival, or your average jealous boyfriend out to kill his girlfriend is not going to take the time to lost-wax cast a gun and go on a spree. And if this does become a real cottage industry, I'm sure we have the government resources to bust them up. It's not like it'd be that easy to get away with. Gangbangers and the like seem unlikely to be the type of people who take great care of their weapons anyways, but I could be wrong about that.

  11. Amen KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  12. #270
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Back in 2013 Solid Metal Concepts printed a metal 1911 semi-auto pistol. So the technology is already here.

    https://www.foxnews.com/tech/texas-f...nted-metal-gun

    And sure, right now it would be prohibitively expensive to print them, but costs come down and technology gets cheaper and easier to obtain. And not every crook would need one. Just the supplier. Or heck the supplier could just have a machine shop and make guns the old fashioned way all day long. If guns are outlawed, it becomes cost effective as the price of black market guns goes up.
    I mean, again, we cross that bridge when we get to it. Make blueprints illegal. Bust down machine shops, etc.

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