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Thread: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

  1. #191
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    Nothing ironic about it. The cities that experience unusually high amounts of gun deaths tend to panic and try and do something about it. Usually by introducing increasingly strict gun laws to successfully reduce their gun violence over time.
    But that isn't the result. The jurisdictions that have had the strictest gun control laws are almost always the same places that have become the jurisdictions with the worst gun violence.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  2. #192
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    No. What matters most is whether large-scale gun massacres...
    Yup. Who cares about anyone not being killed by a gun. All that matters is that when they were murdered that a gun wasn't involved.

    What a sick and twisted outlook.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

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  4. #193
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    For the record Zym, this is Starlight's version of Tassman's Southern Baptist diatribe. Any opportunity he gets to shuffle it this goofy nonsense out he takes. As I pointed out to him ages ago,
    His political compass has also been repeatedly been exposed as a joke. When I took it it said I was pretty far over on the left. Others had similar nonsensical results.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  5. Amen Raphael, MaxVel, Adrift amen'd this post.
  6. #194
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Yup. Who cares about anyone not being killed by a gun. All that matters is that when they were murdered that a gun wasn't involved.
    You erroneously assume that, because the priority is to prevent large scale gun massacres of the type at Port Arthur and Christchurch, that there is no concern about other forms of murder. Perhaps this strange logic is what enables the regular firearms massacres in the USA to continue unabated

    What a sick and twisted outlook.
    Look to yourself when it comes to a “sick and twisted outlook”. “No other developed nation comes close to the rate of US gun violence. Americans own an estimated 265m guns, more than one gun for every adult. Data from the Gun Violence Archive reveals there is a mass shooting – defined as four or more people shot in one incident, not including the shooter – nine out of every 10 days on average”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-gun-violence

    We don’t have this problem in Australia or NZ.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  7. #195
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terraceth View Post
    The comment Zara made of "almost 8x the number of murders" was concerning the number of murders per 100,000 people. The population size of a country is irrelevant to that because it's a proportional number.
    nope. population density matters. When you have a larger population, especially gathered in urban areas, you get more crime in general. If you have people spread out and mostly in rural areas you get less crime, and it becomes harder to even have such things as mass murders.

  8. #196
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    It's this sort of ignorant statement that shows you have literally zero clue on the subject.

    Here's literally the first sentence in wikipedia on Left-wing politics:
    Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy.[1][2][3][4]

    This is basic stuff.

    Sure, people who otherwise consider themselves left-wing are capable of doing terrible stuff or acting in ways not consistent with that label. Just as Christians are quite capable of acting un-Christ-like.

    Does it hurt your feelings because you don't like the idea that morality might be relevant to politics and that some politics might actually be good and some might be actually evil? Sorry if you don't like the facts that the right-wing, overall, in terms of what it inherently stands for, is evil.

    What a stupid statement. The distribution of power is exactly what the left-right continuum is all about. Whether power is distributed among the many (left-wing) or consolidated in the hands of the few who rule over the many (right-wing) has been a core issue for centuries. Shutting your eyes to that is just sad.
    Historians literally label the Jacobin leftist reign a dictatorship (see Interpreting the French Revolution by François Furet, Twelve Who Ruled: The Year of Terror in the French Revolution by R. R. Palmer, and The Terror in the French Revolution by Hugh Gough). They definitely challenged traditional hierarchies, but in doing so instated their own. As a centrist, your diatribe against the right doesn't effect my feelings at all, it's as a history lover that I've got issues.

  9. Amen Raphael, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
  10. #197
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Um we have 60 times the population you do. And a lot larger cities with gang problems which account for a lot of gun homicides, and are mostly illegal guns that you would not get rid of with any regulations because they are criminals. Of the legal gun owners, the homicides are usually domestic disputes (bar fight, husband killing wife for cheating) and they don't pose a danger to the population in general. Mass killings are actually pretty rare considering the size of the country, they just tend to be newsworthy so when one happens you will hear all about it for a week or two. But as has been said already in this thread, if someone is bent on mass murder, they can easily find other means: fire like the Japanese guy this weekend, trucks and vans like in France and the UK, bombs like in Israel, or poison like the subway Sarin Gas attacks in Tokyo.
    Rare compared to where? This is almost nonsensical. Germany has a murder rate of 1.0, thus 5x less than that of the US. It has a huge population. I could cobble together all of Western Europe and still make the point.

    Rouge is crying about people not caring about other types of murder. Which is an absurd accusation. But, hey look, the US is a backwards dangerous place where murder is 5x as common as in Western Europe. Why not do something about it before judging other peoples' more successful public order practices.

    Here is some perspective: https://econjwatch.org/File+download...f?mimetype=pdf

  11. #198
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And ironically, it's the cities with the strictest gun laws that have by far the most gun violence.
    No, the irony is that the countries with the strictest gun laws have some of the lowest level of murder rates. Many of those countries have cities - some of them are even quite dense. Much like many people in this thread.

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  13. #199
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Good news for gun control advocates in the US (assuming their goal is to improve peace and safety and not simply tamp down a basic human right):

    ...the high water mark for firearm murders was 1994 while 2017, the most recent year with complete data on incidents, shows a sharp drop. There were “16,136 [firearm murders] in 1994” but only “10,982” in 2017.

    And if looked at in terms of the murder rate, instead of simply the raw murder numbers, the drop in firearm homicides is even more evident.

    For example, the FBI calculated “6.2 firearm murders per 100,000 people” in 1994, while the murder rate in 2017 was 3.38. And the murder rate was even lower than 3.38 in 2014.

    An interesting correlation with the drop in firearm murders is the incredible expansion of private firearm ownership. In other words, the number of privately-owned firearms was increasing at the same time that the number of firearm murders was plummeting.

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...last-25-years/

    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
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  14. #200
    What's that? lilpixieofterror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Historians literally label the Jacobin leftist reign a dictatorship (see Interpreting the French Revolution by François Furet, Twelve Who Ruled: The Year of Terror in the French Revolution by R. R. Palmer, and The Terror in the French Revolution by Hugh Gough). They definitely challenged traditional hierarchies, but in doing so instated their own. As a centrist, your diatribe against the right doesn't effect my feelings at all, it's as a history lover that I've got issues.
    Starlight likes to define anything and everything bad as right wing and everything good as left wing. Which is just crazy since left, right, and center shift and vary country to country and some pretty terrible things (Nazism, The French Revolution, the USSR, etc) come from ‘left wing’ ideals. Nobody can claim to be violent free, the best you can do is see what ideas work best.
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

  15. Amen Adrift, Raphael, RumTumTugger amen'd this post.

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