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Thread: Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    This is Exhibit A in why mass gun confiscation simply isn't going to happen in the US. It didn't work there, where ownership rates are lower and the gun culture that exists in the US doesn't exist. Even if some future government tried it... good luck going anywhere with it.
    It's not necessarily about getting all unlawful guns (although that would be ideal), it's about making it very hard to get the type of guns that can result in a mass shooting like in Christchurch. Australia passed similar laws two decades ago, which have been successful, and today the number of mass shootings is almost non-existent, and usually family related when it does happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...s_in_Australia

    The terrorist probably came to NZ because of easy access to firearms. Which is something the government, with the support of most of the populace, has endeavored to change. If Australia is anything to go by, it will be largely successful, particularly if good law abiding conservative people, do not break the law.
    Last edited by Zara; 07-08-2019 at 05:26 PM.

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    IAustralia passed similar laws two decades ago, which have been successful, and today the number of mass shootings is almost non-existent, and usually family related when it does happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_la...s_in_Australia.
    Australia is an interesting one, because while the number of mass shootings decreased following the buyback, the number of mass killings didn't. It's just the perpetrators used different weapons from arson to vehicles to knives. Also, rates of violent crime and suicide have actually increased in the following decades.

    So while they were able to put a big crimp in gun related crimes, the buyback did pretty much nothing to improve overall peace and safety.

    https://thefederalist.com/2015/09/03...n-ban-conceit/
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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Australia is an interesting one, because while the number of mass shootings decreased following the buyback, the number of mass killings didn't. It's just the perpetrators used different weapons from arson to vehicles to knives. Also, rates of violent crime and suicide have actually increased in the following decades.

    So while they were able to put a big crimp in gun related crimes, the buyback did pretty much nothing to improve overall peace and safety.

    https://thefederalist.com/2015/09/03...n-ban-conceit/
    If it makes terrorist attacks like the one in Christchurch sufficiently difficult, then the law is successful. It is likely that the terrorist came to NZ because of its gun laws - Australia exporting its filth. In the future, this is less likely. I do not see that as a loss. People can still go hunting, defend themselves and generally play with firearms - just not military stye guns. I personally don't have a problem with that.

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    Thread Killer QuantaFille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    If it makes terrorist attacks like the one in Christchurch sufficiently difficult, then the law is successful. It is likely that the terrorist came to NZ because of its gun laws - Australia exporting its filth. In the future, this is less likely. I do not see that as a loss. People can still go hunting, defend themselves and generally play with firearms - just not military stye guns. I personally don't have a problem with that.
    So, are you ok with terrorists using, say, bombs instead of guns? If they want to kill a lot of people at once, and they can't get guns, do you think they'll just give up?
    Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaFille View Post
    So, are you ok with terrorists using, say, bombs instead of guns? If they want to kill a lot of people at once, and they can't get guns, do you think they'll just give up?
    They can't get bombs, either. A considerable amount of bomb making material is illegal, also. Or tanks, I wouldn't be ok with tanks either. I'm not ok with any type of weapon, obviously. Do I like it that I have to go through security to get on a plane, not really, however, if it means that they don't have access to planes, then fine.
    Last edited by Zara; 07-08-2019 at 07:26 PM.

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    Child of the One True King Raphael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    They can't get bombs, either. A considerable amount of bomb making material is illegal, also. Or tanks, I wouldn't be ok with tanks either. I'm not ok with any type of weapon, obviously. Do I like it that I have to go through security to get on a plane, not really, however, if it means that they don't have access to planes, then fine.
    ummm the Coward of Christchurch (I refuse to give him the publicity of having his name out there) also had a car set up to explode. had he managed to get it to go off at the right location he would have killed a lot more than the 51 people he did.
    As for bomb making material being illegal.....half the things in your kitchen could make a nasty little bomb.
    Or even a little pool chlorine and brake fluid (both available from the Warehouse)

    He chose the weapons he did to try and get them banned in the US in the hopes it would spark off a civil war in the US (as we know he's not the most rational of people).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    ummm the Coward of Christchurch (I refuse to give him the publicity of having his name out there) also had a car set up to explode. had he managed to get it to go off at the right location he would have killed a lot more than the 51 people he did.
    As for bomb making material being illegal.....half the things in your kitchen could make a nasty little bomb.
    Or even a little pool chlorine and brake fluid (both available from the Warehouse)

    He chose the weapons he did to try and get them banned in the US in the hopes it would spark off a civil war in the US (as we know he's not the most rational of people).
    The thing that killed 51 people, was a gun bought at a store, legally. Making bombs is illegal - like these guns now - and, frankly, not as easy as you're making out - as you point out, he failed. I also don't see you defending the right to sell bombs in stores - explosions are 'cool' too you know.

    Either way, one very easy way of killing a lot of people, is now no longer available. There's a reason why these style of weapons are largely banned in developed countries. And why violent deaths from firearms are a fraction of those in the US.

    Nor is the discussion around gun control particularly rational - so there's that too. Why aren't heavy machine guns and RPGs legal? Or tanks, or why is there even security for planes, I mean, if terrorists are going to find 'a way' anyway, then you might as well get rid of security checks. And similar not particularly rational arguments.
    Last edited by Zara; 07-09-2019 at 02:03 AM.

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    If it makes terrorist attacks like the one in Christchurch sufficiently difficult, then the law is successful. It is likely that the terrorist came to NZ because of its gun laws - Australia exporting its filth. In the future, this is less likely. I do not see that as a loss. People can still go hunting, defend themselves and generally play with firearms - just not military stye guns. I personally don't have a problem with that.
    So as long as gun crime is down, you don't care that overall crime is up?

    I really don't understand that thinking.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    So as long as gun crime is down, you don't care that overall crime is up?

    I really don't understand that thinking.
    Have you seen the difference in violent crime rates between the US and say, pretty much any developed country in the world? Take the Netherlands - https://www.nationmaster.com/country...d-States/Crime

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    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Australia is an interesting one, because while the number of mass shootings decreased following the buyback, the number of mass killings didn't. It's just the perpetrators used different weapons from arson to vehicles to knives. Also, rates of violent crime and suicide have actually increased in the following decades.

    So while they were able to put a big crimp in gun related crimes, the buyback did pretty much nothing to improve overall peace and safety.

    https://thefederalist.com/2015/09/03...n-ban-conceit/
    While there has been a decrease in the homicides involving firearms in Australia since the buyback there has also been a sharp decline here in the U.S. where the number of firearms in private hands has actually dramatically increased during the same time period.


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