Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Andrew Wommack & Resurrections

  1. #1
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Wayne Township, PA
    Faith
    Full Gospel Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,993
    Amen (Given)
    3278
    Amen (Received)
    770

    Andrew Wommack & Resurrections

    Ok, so I know Wommack is a Hyper-Faith (and maybe Hyper-Grace) kinda guy. Not concerned about those issues at this time.

    I'm interested in his claims of resurrections in and around his ministry, especially the claimed resurrection of his son after five hours. I have so far not found anything about them other than his (or his ministry's) own claims -- nothing either confirming or disproving.

    Does anyone have info on this?

    FTR, I do not rule out such things automatically, especially since such a respected scholar as Craig Keener affirms resurrections in his own family.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  2. #2
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Triangle
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    10,662
    Amen (Given)
    1766
    Amen (Received)
    4674
    This is one issue where I feel a disconnect between what we're "supposed" to do and what we actually do. I get the impression from the New Testament and the early church that we shouldn't be so skeptical - 1 Thessalonians 5:20 says not to scoff at prophecies, and the Didache even suggests that questioning a prophet is the unforgivable sin. Yet in practical terms, it seems difficult to ignore that most people who claim miracles or prophetic utterances tend to be heterodox (especially with prosperity doctrine) or likely mentally ill (there was one guy who came onto the TWeb shoutbox speaking weird, nearly incoherent English claiming that God had transported him twenty miles at once. I honestly didn't believe him).

    I honestly believe Keener, though. Craig Blomberg reported a story about an elderly woman in his church who was audibly told to grab a cell phone shortly before falling on ice, and I don't see a reason not to believe him, either. Wommack? The jury is out.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  3. #3
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    49,945
    Amen (Given)
    4999
    Amen (Received)
    22192
    I don't think resurrections still happen today. I believe God can heal people miraculously, but I don't think he brings them back from the dead any more. I think that was a special thing that happened during the time of Jesus to show he was the Messiah. And once for Paul with the kid who fell out of the window and that one could even be a case of mistaken death.

  4. #4
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,609
    Amen (Given)
    7067
    Amen (Received)
    6736
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    I don't think resurrections still happen today. I believe God can heal people miraculously, but I don't think he brings them back from the dead any more. I think that was a special thing that happened during the time of Jesus to show he was the Messiah. And once for Paul with the kid who fell out of the window and that one could even be a case of mistaken death.
    Why the exception for Paul? And what about the resurrection of Tabitha (Dorcas) by Peter?

    And what of Jesus' words in John 14:12, “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."

    Also, we have Irenaeus mentioning the raising of the dead in the 2nd century,

    Source: Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 31)

    For they {heretics/Gnostics} can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons— [none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infirmity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity — the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints— that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.

    © Copyright Original Source



    (Red note and underline mine)

  5. #5
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    49,945
    Amen (Given)
    4999
    Amen (Received)
    22192
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    Why the exception for Paul? And what about the resurrection of Tabitha (Dorcas) by Peter?

    And what of Jesus' words in John 14:12, “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."

    Also, we have Irenaeus mentioning the raising of the dead in the 2nd century,

    Source: Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 31)

    For they {heretics/Gnostics} can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons— [none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infirmity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity — the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints— that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.

    © Copyright Original Source



    (Red note and underline mine)
    I forgot about Tabitha.

    My belief is that there was a special time for such miracles back when they were needed to help get the Church started.

  6. #6
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Wayne Township, PA
    Faith
    Full Gospel Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,993
    Amen (Given)
    3278
    Amen (Received)
    770
    For those interested, on this page Keener briefly shares a couple of resurrection anecdotes, including his sister-in-law. (He was not involved in "performing" -- for lack of a better word -- the raisings.)
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  7. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
  8. #7
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Wayne Township, PA
    Faith
    Full Gospel Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,993
    Amen (Given)
    3278
    Amen (Received)
    770
    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    This is one issue where I feel a disconnect between what we're "supposed" to do and what we actually do. I get the impression from the New Testament and the early church that we shouldn't be so skeptical - 1 Thessalonians 5:20 says not to scoff at prophecies, and the Didache even suggests that questioning a prophet is the unforgivable sin. Yet in practical terms, it seems difficult to ignore that most people who claim miracles or prophetic utterances tend to be heterodox (especially with prosperity doctrine) or likely mentally ill (there was one guy who came onto the TWeb shoutbox speaking weird, nearly incoherent English claiming that God had transported him twenty miles at once. I honestly didn't believe him).

    I honestly believe Keener, though. Craig Blomberg reported a story about an elderly woman in his church who was audibly told to grab a cell phone shortly before falling on ice, and I don't see a reason not to believe him, either. Wommack? The jury is out.
    I share a lot of your misgivings.

    Regarding 1 Thes. 5:20 -- WADR to the Didache, I believe the next verse (5:21) directly instructs that we *should* "test" prophecies, which is in practical terms equivalent to "questioning" prophets. 1 Cor. 14:29 STM to indicate the same thing, as does the fact that "distinguishing" or "discerning" of spirits (a form of the same verb used in 14:29) appears next to "prophecy" in 12:10. It always annoyed me when "Faith" preachers would try to pull the "Touch not the LORD's anointed, and do His prophets no harm" and "Believe in His prophets and you will prosper" cards.

    As for what we're "supposed" to do vs. what we "actually" do -- I often think of Acts 12. Peter is in jail. The church was "earnestly" praying for him. An angel of the Lord released Peter in the night. Peter went to a home where many were gathered in prayer, and knocked on the door. Rhoda the servant girl answered the knock, was so overjoyed that she LEFT HIM THERE AND DID NOT OPEN THE DOOR, and went to tell the others. They basically said, "Yeah, and what are YOU smoking?" When they finally went to the door and saw she was right, they were astonished. They were praying, but apparently had no expectation that God would actually do something, at least not anything dramatic.

    I know I'm usually like that today. And I'm pretty sure if God *did* do something dramatic, like raise a dead person, it would scare me as much as please me.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

  9. #8
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,609
    Amen (Given)
    7067
    Amen (Received)
    6736
    I think we simply live in a post-modern scientistic society that makes it hard for us to accept the miraculous, and so, like Jesus in his hometown, where there is a lack of faith we simply don't see it as often as we should. That's not to say that in cultures that are more accepting of the miraculous it isn't still astonishing to see/hear it take place. After all, it's still contrary to the norm, and it is still a display of power from on high, but I think certain Southern hemisphere societies can expect to see more of the miraculous because the simplicity of their faith and their standard of living is often at a place where they have nothing to lose by accepting that divine manifestations can happen in their community.

  10. Amen NorrinRadd, KingsGambit amen'd this post.
  11. #9
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Denmark - Jutland
    Faith
    Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,595
    Amen (Given)
    981
    Amen (Received)
    2979
    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    I think we simply live in a post-modern scientistic society that makes it hard for us to accept the miraculous, and so, like Jesus in his hometown, where there is a lack of faith we simply don't see it as often as we should. That's not to say that in cultures that are more accepting of the miraculous it isn't still astonishing to see/hear it take place. After all, it's still contrary to the norm, and it is still a display of power from on high, but I think certain Southern hemisphere societies can expect to see more of the miraculous because the simplicity of their faith and their standard of living is often at a place where they have nothing to lose by accepting that divine manifestations can happen in their community.
    All claims of the miraculous should be handled on a case by case basis. There's no general rule of thumb we can apply against or for them, other than perhaps, at most, a common sense suggestion that the more extraordinary ones are very rare. There's plenty of reason to be at least a little skeptical, but there is also, in my mind, no reason to be outright dismissive.

    In general when people claim they've seen an angel I believe them. Though, of course, once they start talking about what that angel said and it touches doctrinal stuff, I'll prefer the opinion of the Bible.

  12. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
  13. #10
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,609
    Amen (Given)
    7067
    Amen (Received)
    6736
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    All claims of the miraculous should be handled on a case by case basis. There's no general rule of thumb we can apply against or for them, other than perhaps, at most, a common sense suggestion that the more extraordinary ones are very rare. There's plenty of reason to be at least a little skeptical, but there is also, in my mind, no reason to be outright dismissive.
    You'll find no disagreement from me on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    In general when people claim they've seen an angel I believe them. Though, of course, once they start talking about what that angel said and it touches doctrinal stuff, I'll prefer the opinion of the Bible.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •