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Thread: Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

  1. #11
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Can you elaborate, please, on what you think was meant by "reviler" in the Bible?
    I basically have the same understanding that the gotquestions.org site has (https://www.gotquestions.org/reviler-in-the-Bible.html ); that covers angry outbursts, heavy profanity, and verbal abuse (often with pride).

    On one online ministry I'm involved in, a couple of fairly well known Christian writers (even one retired Bible professor) who have disagreed with us have threatened physical violence and used profanity toward us because of disagreeing on doctrinal matters. I think some of those "watch dog ministries" that are devoted to nothing more than tearing down other Christians on flimsy grounds cross the line, especially when there's slander involved.

    It's not as bad as it used to be but in the past I think this line has also been crossed on TWeb when people decide to use "riposte" in situations that doesn't call for it (like calling people an idiot for a political or theological disagreement that Christians could legitimately take either side on).
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  2. Amen Littlejoe, Adrift, Teallaura, NorrinRadd, MaxVel amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

    But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

    (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

    the section in question...

    Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because Godís Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


    Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

    Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

    My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

    In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

    We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

    It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

    Yes? No?
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

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  4. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I basically have the same understanding that the gotquestions.org site has (https://www.gotquestions.org/reviler-in-the-Bible.html ); that covers angry outbursts, heavy profanity, and verbal abuse (often with pride).

    On one online ministry I'm involved in, a couple of fairly well known Christian writers (even one retired Bible professor) who have disagreed with us have threatened physical violence and used profanity toward us because of disagreeing on doctrinal matters. I think some of those "watch dog ministries" that are devoted to nothing more than tearing down other Christians on flimsy grounds cross the line, especially when there's slander involved.

    It's not as bad as it used to be but in the past I think this line has also been crossed on TWeb when people decide to use "riposte" in situations that doesn't call for it (like calling people an idiot for a political or theological disagreement that Christians could legitimately take either side on).
    Thanks.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

    It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

    Yes? No?
    My dad (who was a preacher) was unafraid to speak out against gluttony for this very reason.
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

    It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

    Yes? No?
    The Bible doesn't really seem to explicitly state that gluttony is a sin the way it does with homosexuality, though. Even assuming it is, there's not really a "red line" the way there is with homosexuality. How much is too much?
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  7. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
  8. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

    It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

    Yes? No?
    That's a good catch - yes, it's often joked about, but I try to abstain from that with the exception that "this belt is just a fence around a chicken graveyard". That's a good point I'll mention in tonight's teaching!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  9. #17
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    The Bible doesn't really seem to explicitly state that gluttony is a sin the way it does with homosexuality, though.
    True, but it does open us up to criticism to mock it and to be so unnecessarily "out of shape".
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. #18
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    My dad (who was a preacher) was unafraid to speak out against gluttony for this very reason.
    I need to lose about 20 lbs and I'll get back after this topic.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  11. Amen Obsidian amen'd this post.
  12. #19
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....
    You trailed off there. What were you going to say before the ellipses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.
    Who's Beth Moore?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.
    I go one step further and say that it's a sin to intentionally dwell on or flirt with temptation even if you don't commit to them in keeping with Christ's saying in Matthew 5:28.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.
    Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    I can't think of any on a national level. Perhaps the obesity acceptance/pride movement, but I don't think that's super popular outside of some blogs and magazines maybe. There's some odd practices coming out of Latin America where people are mixing pagan worship with Christianity and are celebrating it; I went into a Catholic-owned business recently that was also selling Santa Muerte/Saint Death candles. There are self-proclaimed Christians who are side worshiping death, and that ain't cool. Perhaps not ironically, there's an association with Santa Muerte worshipers and the LGBT community in Latin America.

  13. #20
    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Was he proud "as a Christian", or as a heathen?
    Heathen...


    I don't think "having desires" is the same as "lusting" --- I'm human and a male, and even though I'm ancient, I still have desires. If I entertain those desires (toward other than my own wife), they can turn into lust.
    Are we splitting hairs?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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