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Thread: Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

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    Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

    First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

    But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

    (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

    the section in question...

    Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because Godís Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


    Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

    Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

    My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

    In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

    We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  2. Amen mossrose, Teallaura, NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    While waiting for input for others, I'm still thinking out loud....

    in law, there's the "aggravation" factor. A crime could be considered a certain level crime with an associated penalty, but "aggravating factors" could increase that penalty due to the increased seriousness of the crime.

    Example - assault and aggravated assault - an "aggravating factor" could be the use of a weapon as opposed to just fists, and a more serious offense has occurred.
    Or burglary - "aggravated burglary" could be the burglary of an OCCUPIED building, as opposed to simple burglary of a building with no people inside.

    I seem to remember something in Seminary from the Westminster Larger Catechism that deals with this concept of aggravated sin, but will have to look that up. I seem to recall it being something about a "riper" Christian (older and/or more experienced), particularly with responsibility over a flock, or Sunday School class, or in a teaching position --- that person's sins would be "aggravated" compared to like sins of a new Christian.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    While waiting for input for others, I'm still thinking out loud....

    in law, there's the "aggravation" factor. A crime could be considered a certain level crime with an associated penalty, but "aggravating factors" could increase that penalty due to the increased seriousness of the crime.

    Example - assault and aggravated assault - an "aggravating factor" could be the use of a weapon as opposed to just fists, and a more serious offense has occurred.
    Or burglary - "aggravated burglary" could be the burglary of an OCCUPIED building, as opposed to simple burglary of a building with no people inside.

    I seem to remember something in Seminary from the Westminster Larger Catechism that deals with this concept of aggravated sin, but will have to look that up. I seem to recall it being something about a "riper" Christian (older and/or more experienced), particularly with responsibility over a flock, or Sunday School class, or in a teaching position --- that person's sins would be "aggravated" compared to like sins of a new Christian.
    That would seem to be in line with "To whom much is given, much will be required."
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    That would seem to be in line with "To whom much is given, much will be required."
    EGGzackly the scriptural principle that came to mind, and is ALWAYS present when I, as a Pastor, am dealing with people in my congregation or community.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    I think there are many Christians (especially online) who take pride in being a reviler. They may not explicitly recognize that's what they're doing. It's one of the sins mentioned in the same passage in 1 Corinthians though.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

  7. Amen The Remonstrant amen'd this post.
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    As for the actual OP, I know Robert Gagnon (the Presbyterian Bible scholar mostly known for his defense of the claim that homosexuality is a sin) does argue that it's one of the worst of sins, but I haven't read any of his books so I don't know his argument.
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

    All cruelty springs from weakness. - Seneca the Younger

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    I think there are many Christians (especially online) who take pride in being a reviler. They may not explicitly recognize that's what they're doing. It's one of the sins mentioned in the same passage in 1 Corinthians though.
    Can you elaborate, please, on what you think was meant by "reviler" in the Bible?
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  10. Amen NorrinRadd amen'd this post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

    But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

    (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

    the section in question...

    Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because Godís Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


    Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

    Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

    My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

    In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

    We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    A couple of points. I knew a guy who was proud of bedding married women. Second, there were only about 22 behaviors in the Old Testament that drew the death penalty, homosexuality was one of these. So the Hebrews thought it as pretty bad. Third, about desires; didn't Christ say that if you lusted after a woman you already committed adultery in your heart? How does that line up with homosexuals having sexual desires for the same sex? Haven't they sinned in their hearts?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    As for the actual OP, I know Robert Gagnon (the Presbyterian Bible scholar mostly known for his defense of the claim that homosexuality is a sin) does argue that it's one of the worst of sins, but I haven't read any of his books so I don't know his argument.
    The argument that I've usually seen is that, though Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality, he DOES use Sodom and Gomorrah as examples of what might have happened to unrepentant sinners.

    "Whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!"

    "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes...And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you."

    I don't think Jesus is dealing here so much with the issue of homosexuality as he is the "pride" and "unrepentant" nature - which may well play into the whole "Gay Pride" thing.

    Again, just thinking out loud.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    A couple of points. I knew a guy who was proud of bedding married women.
    Was he proud "as a Christian", or as a heathen?

    Second, there were only about 22 behaviors in the Old Testament that drew the death penalty, homosexuality was one of these. So the Hebrews thought it as pretty bad. Third, about desires; didn't Christ say that if you lusted after a woman you already committed adultery in your heart? How does that line up with homosexuals having sexual desires for the same sex? Haven't they sinned in their hearts?
    I don't think "having desires" is the same as "lusting" --- I'm human and a male, and even though I'm ancient, I still have desires. If I entertain those desires (toward other than my own wife), they can turn into lust.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

  14. Amen Teallaura, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.

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