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Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

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  • Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

    First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

    But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

    (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

    the section in question...

    Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because God’s Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


    Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

    Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

    My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

    In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

    We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

    Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    While waiting for input for others, I'm still thinking out loud....

    in law, there's the "aggravation" factor. A crime could be considered a certain level crime with an associated penalty, but "aggravating factors" could increase that penalty due to the increased seriousness of the crime.

    Example - assault and aggravated assault - an "aggravating factor" could be the use of a weapon as opposed to just fists, and a more serious offense has occurred.
    Or burglary - "aggravated burglary" could be the burglary of an OCCUPIED building, as opposed to simple burglary of a building with no people inside.

    I seem to remember something in Seminary from the Westminster Larger Catechism that deals with this concept of aggravated sin, but will have to look that up. I seem to recall it being something about a "riper" Christian (older and/or more experienced), particularly with responsibility over a flock, or Sunday School class, or in a teaching position --- that person's sins would be "aggravated" compared to like sins of a new Christian.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      While waiting for input for others, I'm still thinking out loud....

      in law, there's the "aggravation" factor. A crime could be considered a certain level crime with an associated penalty, but "aggravating factors" could increase that penalty due to the increased seriousness of the crime.

      Example - assault and aggravated assault - an "aggravating factor" could be the use of a weapon as opposed to just fists, and a more serious offense has occurred.
      Or burglary - "aggravated burglary" could be the burglary of an OCCUPIED building, as opposed to simple burglary of a building with no people inside.

      I seem to remember something in Seminary from the Westminster Larger Catechism that deals with this concept of aggravated sin, but will have to look that up. I seem to recall it being something about a "riper" Christian (older and/or more experienced), particularly with responsibility over a flock, or Sunday School class, or in a teaching position --- that person's sins would be "aggravated" compared to like sins of a new Christian.
      That would seem to be in line with "To whom much is given, much will be required."
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        That would seem to be in line with "To whom much is given, much will be required."
        EGGzackly the scriptural principle that came to mind, and is ALWAYS present when I, as a Pastor, am dealing with people in my congregation or community.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
          I think there are many Christians (especially online) who take pride in being a reviler. They may not explicitly recognize that's what they're doing. It's one of the sins mentioned in the same passage in 1 Corinthians though.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            As for the actual OP, I know Robert Gagnon (the Presbyterian Bible scholar mostly known for his defense of the claim that homosexuality is a sin) does argue that it's one of the worst of sins, but I haven't read any of his books so I don't know his argument.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I think there are many Christians (especially online) who take pride in being a reviler. They may not explicitly recognize that's what they're doing. It's one of the sins mentioned in the same passage in 1 Corinthians though.
              Can you elaborate, please, on what you think was meant by "reviler" in the Bible?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

                But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

                (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

                the section in question...

                Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because God’s Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


                Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

                Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

                My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

                In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

                We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

                Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
                A couple of points. I knew a guy who was proud of bedding married women. Second, there were only about 22 behaviors in the Old Testament that drew the death penalty, homosexuality was one of these. So the Hebrews thought it as pretty bad. Third, about desires; didn't Christ say that if you lusted after a woman you already committed adultery in your heart? How does that line up with homosexuals having sexual desires for the same sex? Haven't they sinned in their hearts?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  As for the actual OP, I know Robert Gagnon (the Presbyterian Bible scholar mostly known for his defense of the claim that homosexuality is a sin) does argue that it's one of the worst of sins, but I haven't read any of his books so I don't know his argument.
                  The argument that I've usually seen is that, though Jesus doesn't mention homosexuality, he DOES use Sodom and Gomorrah as examples of what might have happened to unrepentant sinners.
                  "Whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!"

                  "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes...And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you."

                  I don't think Jesus is dealing here so much with the issue of homosexuality as he is the "pride" and "unrepentant" nature - which may well play into the whole "Gay Pride" thing.

                  Again, just thinking out loud.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by seer View Post
                    A couple of points. I knew a guy who was proud of bedding married women.
                    Was he proud "as a Christian", or as a heathen?

                    Second, there were only about 22 behaviors in the Old Testament that drew the death penalty, homosexuality was one of these. So the Hebrews thought it as pretty bad. Third, about desires; didn't Christ say that if you lusted after a woman you already committed adultery in your heart? How does that line up with homosexuals having sexual desires for the same sex? Haven't they sinned in their hearts?
                    I don't think "having desires" is the same as "lusting" --- I'm human and a male, and even though I'm ancient, I still have desires. If I entertain those desires (toward other than my own wife), they can turn into lust.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Can you elaborate, please, on what you think was meant by "reviler" in the Bible?
                      I basically have the same understanding that the gotquestions.org site has (https://www.gotquestions.org/reviler-in-the-Bible.html ); that covers angry outbursts, heavy profanity, and verbal abuse (often with pride).

                      On one online ministry I'm involved in, a couple of fairly well known Christian writers (even one retired Bible professor) who have disagreed with us have threatened physical violence and used profanity toward us because of disagreeing on doctrinal matters. I think some of those "watch dog ministries" that are devoted to nothing more than tearing down other Christians on flimsy grounds cross the line, especially when there's slander involved.

                      It's not as bad as it used to be but in the past I think this line has also been crossed on TWeb when people decide to use "riposte" in situations that doesn't call for it (like calling people an idiot for a political or theological disagreement that Christians could legitimately take either side on).
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        First, I know that "sin is sin", and that the same author who said....

                        But, a friend asked me about Beth Moore's latest controversy where she, apparently, deleted a section from a reprint of one of her books, and the newly published Kindle version.

                        (Got back in town, so I'm brushing up on this -- I can't post the link, because it's full of profanity, but it comes from a Patheos source)

                        the section in question...

                        Before we proceed to our Scripture-prayers for overcoming sexual strongholds, we are wise to address another deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society: homosexuality. I have wonderful news for anyone who has struggled with homosexual sin. God indeed can deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation. Do not let Satan shame you into not seeking forgiveness, fullness, and complete restoration in Jesus Christ. I know complete transformation is possible not only because God’s Word says so, but because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. I know plenty of believers who have been set free from homosexuality.


                        Apparently, she's being blasted from the Right for taking this passage out, and criticized by the Left for not being able to directly address the topic "as sin".

                        Meanwhile - and I haven't caught up with this yet - there is movement in the SBC to 'lessen' the impact of 'homosexuality is sin". Not sure what that's all about.

                        My position has been - as a number of us have stated numerous times - that it's not a sin to have homosexual thoughts or desires, but it is a sin to act on them, and particularly to take PRIDE in them.

                        In fact, I'm thinking that that's why homosexuality is often considered a "worse sin", because it is so often coupled with PRIDE, and the resulting "marriage" to a same sex person becomes a declaration of defiance to God.

                        We don't find a sexual predator (who wants to be respected) BOASTING of his sin, or an adulterer BOASTING of his sin.... or a thief boasting of his thievery....

                        Is there any other sin that a person takes PRIDE in, while wanting to be considered, for example, a "practicing Christian"?
                        As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

                        It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

                        Yes? No?
                        "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                        "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          I basically have the same understanding that the gotquestions.org site has (https://www.gotquestions.org/reviler-in-the-Bible.html ); that covers angry outbursts, heavy profanity, and verbal abuse (often with pride).

                          On one online ministry I'm involved in, a couple of fairly well known Christian writers (even one retired Bible professor) who have disagreed with us have threatened physical violence and used profanity toward us because of disagreeing on doctrinal matters. I think some of those "watch dog ministries" that are devoted to nothing more than tearing down other Christians on flimsy grounds cross the line, especially when there's slander involved.

                          It's not as bad as it used to be but in the past I think this line has also been crossed on TWeb when people decide to use "riposte" in situations that doesn't call for it (like calling people an idiot for a political or theological disagreement that Christians could legitimately take either side on).
                          Thanks.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                            As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

                            It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

                            Yes? No?
                            My dad (who was a preacher) was unafraid to speak out against gluttony for this very reason.
                            I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                              As to your last sentence...yes, there is one, and I've NEVER heard a sermon on it. In fact, it's usually bragged about in the pulpit (not necessarily YOUR pulpit) as well. That is the sin of Gluttony. It's the one that comes to mind. I think many Christians including preachers have issues with it. Many times in my almost 40 years of being a Christian, I've heard preachers and other brothers or sisters in Christ, expound on the YUGE, delicious meal they had and how much they ate and on and on...is it as bad as homosexuality? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. To a starving man, I would say it would be just as bad.

                              It's funny because I've seen fat Christians that will talk about how bad drinking is (for example) but they have no issue with eating a whole large pizza by themselves and finishing off the meal with a big dessert...walking away from the table groaning...

                              Yes? No?
                              The Bible doesn't really seem to explicitly state that gluttony is a sin the way it does with homosexuality, though. Even assuming it is, there's not really a "red line" the way there is with homosexuality. How much is too much?
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment

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