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Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Do we know which idea the authors of Scripture had in mind in using the Greek "phagos"?
    It's somewhat immaterial, IMO, since Proverbs, et al. rather predate Greek.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #47
      I view homosexuality as part of "sexual immorality" which the bible condemns in various places. I don't think it is any better or worse than any other sexual immorality. I do think that adding pride to the mix makes it worse because you are encouraging others to sin with you by claiming it is "good" and not a sin.

      And as far as gluttony goes, I think all Americans and Europeans could be accused of that by those in the third world who have to scrape for scraps. But I view gluttony as someone who takes undue pleasure in eating. Eating past just getting nourishment and overdoing it, just like an alcoholic overdoes drinking. I am not talking an occasional dinner out, or a Baptist church pot-luck picnic once in a while. I am talking about making a lifestyle of it. That is gluttony. When food takes precedent over your life, like booze does to an alcoholic.


      I myself am overweight. Partly because of genetics, partly because of age and some medications. I don't overeat most of the time, I try to eat healthy because of high cholesterol and diabetes, but I can't seem to lose any weight. I am sure most people looking at me would think "glutton" - but I don't revel in food, taking undue pleasure in stuffing my face. I actually see food as an enemy sometimes, keeping me from losing weight. Unlike an alcoholic, you can't abstain from food.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
        As I understand it, the concept of vomitoriums, and/or overeating + vomiting is a bit of a myth for the Romans as well.

        I can't seem to find anything in the Old Testament commentaries I've read that indicate that Biblical gluttony included overeating and vomiting, though to be fair, commentaries are rarely exhaustive on the use of single words/phrases. It's very possible that there's a monograph that deals with the subject.

        The passages that Littlejoe cites in post #22 are interesting. English Bibles translate a couple different Hebrew words into glutton/gluttony. So, for instance, the Deuteronomy passage translates the Hebrew word zalal/zalel to glutton, but that's a pretty loose translation of the word which literally means "to shake", but probably in context means something closer to "squanderer." The Proverbs passages are a translation of the phrase ba'al nepeš which roughly means something like "man of big appetite" where nepeš is the Hebrew word for throat or gullet. The context of Old Testament warnings seem less to do with overeating as we understand it, and more to do with (at least in Proverbs 23) polite rules for eating in the company of rulers, and (in most other passages) wasteful eating. Ancient Israel obviously didn't have a McDonalds on the corner of every block, and overeating was a concern, not necessarily because of any physical issues, but because you'd be eating into shared and limited resources.

        The Bible has other passages on excessive behavior, over-indulging just for the sake of over-indulging, and making pleasure an idol, but it doesn't seem to me it necessarily has in mind the preacher who relishes the idea of the church BBQ and bake sale. But yeah, anything done in excess can be sinful, whether it's too much eating or watching too much TV or what have you.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          anything done in excess can be sinful, whether it's too much eating or watching too much TV or what have you.
          ...But not spending too much time on theologyweb, right? right?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            ...But not spending too much time on theologyweb, right? right?
            No, that's especially sinful.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              No, that's especially sinful.
              Heretic!!! Burn the witch!!!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                I view homosexuality as part of "sexual immorality" which the bible condemns in various places. I don't think it is any better or worse than any other sexual immorality.
                I'm not sure that is true. Fornication is a sexual sin but it was not a death penalty offence in the Old Testament, homosexuality was.
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  I'm not sure that is true. Fornication is a sexual sin but it was not a death penalty offence in the Old Testament, homosexuality was.
                  Then why did they try to stone the adultress in the NT?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Homosexual acts, like all sexual sins, is something that can lead to your damnation. Or at least, we Christians, whether baptists or Catholic, East or West, can agree that one can't be a practicing homosexuality while also consistently maintaining a sincere Christian faith.

                    I also believe that homosexuality is in some sense worse, more distorted, than sex outside of marriage. So its bad, its not something you can engage in as a Christian and merely excuse as a personal weakness.

                    There are other sins of course that are worse. I wonder if its as bad as a person who is unfaithful to their spouse. In the end homosexuality is just a sin that's contrary to human sexuality and dignity, while unfaithfulness is both a sexual sin, a betrayal of a person and a sin against justice. But on the other hand someone who is being unfaithful might just be committing a one time event, while someone in an active homosexual relationship is in an ongoing sinful state...

                    At any rate, its bad, worse than unmarried sex, but I don't know where exactly on the grand scale of sinfulness to put it.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                      Homosexual acts, like all sexual sins, is something that can lead to your damnation. Or at least, we Christians, whether baptists or Catholic, East or West, can agree that one can't be a practicing homosexuality while also consistently maintaining a sincere Christian faith.

                      I also believe that homosexuality is in some sense worse, more distorted, than sex outside of marriage. So its bad, its not something you can engage in as a Christian and merely excuse as a personal weakness.

                      There are other sins of course that are worse. I wonder if its as bad as a person who is unfaithful to their spouse. In the end homosexuality is just a sin that's contrary to human sexuality and dignity, while unfaithfulness is both a sexual sin, a betrayal of a person and a sin against justice. But on the other hand someone who is being unfaithful might just be committing a one time event, while someone in an active homosexual relationship is in an ongoing sinful state...

                      At any rate, its bad, worse than unmarried sex, but I don't know where exactly on the grand scale of sinfulness to put it.
                      It's on the "don't do it" scale.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Then why did they try to stone the adultress in the NT?
                        I said fornication not adultery, fornication could be two unmarried people have sex outside of marriage.
                        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by seer View Post
                          I said fornication not adultery, fornication could be two unmarried people have sex outside of marriage.
                          Since I behave myself, it's hard for me to remember them thar sexual immorality labels.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seer View Post
                            I said fornication not adultery, fornication could be two unmarried people have sex outside of marriage.
                            I thought fornication was anyone having sex outside of marriage, even married people outside of their own marriage. Basically illicit sex, which homosexual sex would also be.


                            for·ni·ca·tion
                            /ˌfôrnəˈkāSH(ə)n/
                            Learn to pronounce
                            nounformal•humorous
                            noun: fornication; plural noun: fornications

                            sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              I think it's safe to say, at this point, that homosexuality (and its associate immoralities) is the only sin we see "going on parade" (literally) BOASTING of involvement in the sin.

                              The fact that these "pride" parades frequently (routinely?) include near naked people, simulated sex acts, men kissing little boys on the mouth, and other displays of sexual deviance pretty well singles it out as "way different" from other sins.

                              And, let's not forget that, as the Gay Pride thing was gaining momentum, even NAMBLA was part of that crowd. I would not be surprised if they came back into the fold as 'age of consent' opponents.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                I thought fornication was anyone having sex outside of marriage, even married people outside of their own marriage. Basically illicit sex, which homosexual sex would also be.


                                for·ni·ca·tion
                                /ˌfôrnəˈkāSH(ə)n/
                                Learn to pronounce
                                nounformal•humorous
                                noun: fornication; plural noun: fornications

                                sexual intercourse between people not married to each other.
                                Yes it could include all of that but would also apply to between two unmarried single people.
                                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                                Comment

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