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Thread: Is Homosexuality a "worse sin" than other sins?

  1. #41
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    No. Not at all. Eli was never condemned in Scripture as a glutton - because although Scripture clearly states he was fat - he WASN'T a glutton.

    Overeating isn't gluttony - it's not even inherently wasteful since the body stores what it doesn't use. Gluttony is almost absent in modern times, at least in the West. Bulimia is its closest cousin.

    Gluttony is the act of deliberately vomiting a meal for the purpose of making room to continue to eat more. It's associated with feasting - gluttons would divest themselves in between courses so the could continue to sample the delicacies.

    In modern times, the eight course meal is rarely served - and it pales in comparison to the number of courses and dishes that were served at feasts in antiquity and into the medieval period. A four remove feast, commonly reenacted in the SCA, can have ten to twelve dishes - NOT counting the bread course. It's tiny compared to feasts from period - some of up to twelve removes. I attended one such reenactment - believe me, no one ate the whole thing.
    While it's certainly true that fat ≠ gluttony, assigning it to ONLY overeating followed by vomiting is equally not correct. That certainly qualifies, but the very definition of gluttony is overindulging, overeating, over-drinking (drunkenness).
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  2. #42
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    While it's certainly true that fat ≠ gluttony, assigning it to ONLY overeating followed by vomiting is equally not correct. That certainly qualifies, but the very definition of gluttony is overindulging, overeating, over-drinking (drunkenness).
    Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.

  3. #43
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.
    I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
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  4. #44
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Modern definition, maybe, but that's not how the term was originally defined, nor how it has been historically understood. Overindulging is often unwise - but is not itself sin.
    Are you talking about the English word, "glutton," or the Greek "phagos"? Or is the same true of both?
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  5. #45
    tWebber NorrinRadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
    Do we know which idea the authors of Scripture had in mind in using the Greek "phagos"?
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  6. #46
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    Do we know which idea the authors of Scripture had in mind in using the Greek "phagos"?
    It's somewhat immaterial, IMO, since Proverbs, et al. rather predate Greek.
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  7. #47
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    I view homosexuality as part of "sexual immorality" which the bible condemns in various places. I don't think it is any better or worse than any other sexual immorality. I do think that adding pride to the mix makes it worse because you are encouraging others to sin with you by claiming it is "good" and not a sin.

    And as far as gluttony goes, I think all Americans and Europeans could be accused of that by those in the third world who have to scrape for scraps. But I view gluttony as someone who takes undue pleasure in eating. Eating past just getting nourishment and overdoing it, just like an alcoholic overdoes drinking. I am not talking an occasional dinner out, or a Baptist church pot-luck picnic once in a while. I am talking about making a lifestyle of it. That is gluttony. When food takes precedent over your life, like booze does to an alcoholic.


    I myself am overweight. Partly because of genetics, partly because of age and some medications. I don't overeat most of the time, I try to eat healthy because of high cholesterol and diabetes, but I can't seem to lose any weight. I am sure most people looking at me would think "glutton" - but I don't revel in food, taking undue pleasure in stuffing my face. I actually see food as an enemy sometimes, keeping me from losing weight. Unlike an alcoholic, you can't abstain from food.

  8. #48
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I suspect you're making the mistake of assuming that the Hebrew definition of gluttony (from well before the Roman empire existed) is equivalent to overeating + vomiting so more can be eaten - a practice I only recall explicitly linked to said Roman empire. If you're looking for 'historical understanding', gluttony has been linked with overindulging since at least the dawn of the monastic era (late 3rd/early 4th century).
    As I understand it, the concept of vomitoriums, and/or overeating + vomiting is a bit of a myth for the Romans as well.

    I can't seem to find anything in the Old Testament commentaries I've read that indicate that Biblical gluttony included overeating and vomiting, though to be fair, commentaries are rarely exhaustive on the use of single words/phrases. It's very possible that there's a monograph that deals with the subject.

    The passages that Littlejoe cites in post #22 are interesting. English Bibles translate a couple different Hebrew words into glutton/gluttony. So, for instance, the Deuteronomy passage translates the Hebrew word zalal/zalel to glutton, but that's a pretty loose translation of the word which literally means "to shake", but probably in context means something closer to "squanderer." The Proverbs passages are a translation of the phrase ba'al nepeš which roughly means something like "man of big appetite" where nepeš is the Hebrew word for throat or gullet. The context of Old Testament warnings seem less to do with overeating as we understand it, and more to do with (at least in Proverbs 23) polite rules for eating in the company of rulers, and (in most other passages) wasteful eating. Ancient Israel obviously didn't have a McDonalds on the corner of every block, and overeating was a concern, not necessarily because of any physical issues, but because you'd be eating into shared and limited resources.

    The Bible has other passages on excessive behavior, over-indulging just for the sake of over-indulging, and making pleasure an idol, but it doesn't seem to me it necessarily has in mind the preacher who relishes the idea of the church BBQ and bake sale. But yeah, anything done in excess can be sinful, whether it's too much eating or watching too much TV or what have you.

  9. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  10. #49
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adrift View Post
    anything done in excess can be sinful, whether it's too much eating or watching too much TV or what have you.
    ...But not spending too much time on theologyweb, right? right?

  11. #50
    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    ...But not spending too much time on theologyweb, right? right?
    No, that's especially sinful.

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