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Thread: US Census

  1. #31
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    That was a good move on his part - cooler heads prevailed in this case. The president bucking a supreme court ruling would be a very, very bad precedent, if not worse.

    Jim
    From what I can tell that whole rumor was just made up by the MSM. Barr said he had no plans to go against SCOTUS ruling.

  2. #32
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    It would have been a very bad move to try to go over the ruling of SCOTUS, apparently even Donald Trump could understand that

    Jim
    Unlike the previous administration.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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  4. #33
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    From what I can tell that whole rumor was just made up by the MSM. Barr said he had no plans to go against SCOTUS ruling.
    You guys need to get a new line. "It's all the MSM's fault" is getting really old.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  5. #34
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You guys need to get a new line. "It's all the MSM's fault" is getting really old.


    Jim
    Great observation. You are so right. Is there a way to get the MSM to report accurately so that we can talk about the news instead?

  6. #35
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    You guys need to get a new line. "It's all the MSM's fault" is getting really old.


    Jim

    Well they were the ones reporting it and I can find nothing where Trump said he was going to do such a thing, so what is your conclusion? he told them in secret?

  7. #36
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Well they were the ones reporting it and I can find nothing where Trump said he was going to do such a thing, so what is your conclusion? he told them in secret?
    Trump said he was considering adding the question through executive order at least twice around July 5-7.

    The original complaint about including a citizenship question on the census was that doing so would cause an undercount of the population -- both citizens and non-citizens, as many families would avoid the census for fear of exposing undocumented relatives. This was the opinion of the census bureau, which said that it gets citizenship data through different means with more accuracy.

    Undercounting the population this way would over-represent the white population, creating skewed data that helps Republican apportionment. This has been a conservative to-do for awhile among the folks who deal with such things.

    One of those people, Republican strategist Thomas Hofeller, was working on getting this done when he died recently. Unbeknownst to pretty much everyone, he was working with a Trump administration census official to put the question on the census. This came to light just before SCOTUS ruled on the question, after the Trump administration had gone through the courts arguing that the reason it had wanted to put the question on was to help enforce the Voting Rights Act. There was a good deal of evidence presented proving this wasn't true but it seems that the Hofeller files was the last straw for Justice Roberts, who sided with the liberal wing of the Court -- not by saying that the administration's reasons were insufficient but rather that they were mendacious. Roberts more or less invited the administration to come back within a short span of time with a "better reason".

    Since Commerce and DOJ had already shot their credibility to the depths by clearly lying, they weren't about to trot out a new fake reason so they gave up, having already told SCOTUS that printing the census couldn't wait past June 30, anyway. Trump saw this on TV later that night and began being Trump, not only saying that he was still planning to get the question on the census but stating clearly that the motivation for doing so was finding out who's here legally or illegaly (which the question wouldn't ask). So DOJ lawyers had a pretty bad day on the phone with the judge in a related case (whether the citizenship question would violate the Equal Protection Act) on July 4.

    The next week, DOJ announced that it was going to replace all the previous lawyers working the case with a new set -- presumably because it's problematic for lawyers to argue something untrue having already argued something untrue in the same case -- you can get through it the first time by being careful about what information you don't learn. But the second time? After you already know what you know? Big ethics problem. But DOJ didn't actually give a reason. Plaintiff lawyers complained that DOJ had to give a reason for withdrawing lawyers and the judge agreed, telling the lawyers to put into writing why they were withdrawing and telling them that he was retaining jurisdiction over them. That'd be bad for the administration.

    So Trump caved and his executive order is two things: 1) it's getting the citizenship information he ostensibly wanted the "right" way that everyone involved in this thing said was a better way to get it in the first place and 2) directed Commerce to share that data with states that want to use it for apportionment in the 2021 redistricting. Because there's another case in Alabama right now where conservatives are trying to argue that districts can be apportioned by citizenship rather than total population. They can't -- or at least they never have -- so the case will almost certainly fail up to SCOTUS, where four conservative justices just wrote a scathing dissent about people not taking the Trump administration at its word and falling into "conspiracy theories" about how the administration didn't really want the citizenship question to enforce the VRA like it was saying. Days later, Trump would of course acknowledge that his motivation for getting the question back on through EO had nothing to do with the VRA. Whether those four justices will feel at all chastised about this and refuse to make a partisan redistricting ruling ... well, I leave that question to people less cynical about the state of modern conservatism than I.

    I'm not really here - infrequently check in to see what the state of the Christian conservative base is, usually looking for some faint glimmer of recognition that things have gotten really bad for taking care of refugees, asylum seekers, and the "strangers" Christ talked about. Will probably continue doing that from time to time but don't plan on jumping back in any time in the near or mid future. Glad folks are well.


    --Sam
    "I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / So close to our dwelling place?" — Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"


  8. #37
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Nice to see you back

    I'm always still in trouble again

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  10. #38
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Nice to see you back
    His skills at writing fiction are as good as ever.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  11. #39
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Couldn't the US just standardize how tracking of citizenship happens. Perhaps by developing a federal database? Is handing out a questionaire to all the addresses of the US really the best way to do it?

  12. #40
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Couldn't the US just standardize how tracking of citizenship happens. Perhaps by developing a federal database? Is handing out a questionaire to all the addresses of the US really the best way to do it?
    It would have to be an agreement of Congress, and there is a substantial liberal element that simply doesn't want it to be known how many citizens and non-citizens are here.
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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