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Thread: The Green New Deal was never about climate change

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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    The Green New Deal was never about climate change

    The Green New Deal was never about climate change; it's just AOC's excuse to destroy America's economy

    In Europe, you will often hear politically savvy people refer to Green Party politicians as "watermelons." The reason is that although they might be environmentalist "green" on the outside, these leftists are secretly communist red if you look beneath the surface.

    They typically resort to such subterfuge because environmentalism is more popular than Marxism. A former East German communist is bound to be unpopular, but perhaps not so much if he rehabilitates himself as a renewable energy enthusiast.

    The case of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat from New York, is different in that she openly advertised herself as a socialist in a country with a well-grounded historical aversion to such alien ideologies. But her grand policy initiative, the $93 trillion Green New Deal, was still billed as if it were a legitimate environmentalist idea. We were supposedly trying to save the world from imminent destruction. As Ocasio-Cortez herself put it, "We're, like, the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

    She would have us think, then, that this is a conversation about science. We need the Green New Deal, or else humanity is doomed. But now we know a lot more about this proposal, and it appears that that isn't what the Green New Deal is about at all.

    Her chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti (the brains and the money behind her political operation ever since her 2018 primary victory) divulged in an unintentionally blunt comment in the Washington Post that the Green New Deal was not only not based in the science of climate change, but in fact not even designed with climate change in mind. "[I]t wasn’t originally a climate thing at all,” he is quoted as saying.

    In other words, it's not that they looked for a way to save the world, and just happened to find a way that involved full employment pledges, the retrofitting of millions of buildings, income for those unwilling to work, high-speed passenger rail, and the curtailment of plane travel and carnivorousness. That's precisely backwards. The Green New Deal came about because Chakrabarti wanted to transform the U.S. economy into something more primitive, and environmentalism struck him as the best excuse for doing so.

    Think of the Green New Deal as an updated (and we hope less lethal) version of the "Year Zero" concept. Americans will be reassigned under a new socialist order to environmentally friendly tasks. The saving of the planet is not the goal of the Green New Deal but rather the excuse for it: the common purpose around which we all unite to pursue the deindustrialized, Utopian America of tomorrow.

    And we need that Utopian socialist society because ... wait, why exactly? Because of the despotic cruelty of our tsar and the grinding poverty of his recently enslaved subjects? Because none of the peasants own any land in our impoverished feudal society?

    .....
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    "Climate change" isn't even about climate change. It has always been a bogeyman used for pushing leftist government policy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    "Climate change" isn't even about climate change. It has always been a bogeyman used for pushing leftist government policy.
    Not sure about the GND and the op, but you are completely wrong with this comment MM.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    You're right, I'm sure the next ice age is just around the corner.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    tWebber
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    We know most politics behind man-made climate change is self-serving bullcrap, but we'll see at least from climate change scientific circles how serious they are about the facts based on how they respond (or don't) to this recent study.
    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Not sure about the GND and the op, but you are completely wrong with this comment MM.

    Jim
    It's about transfer of wealth. Hence the need for carbon credits and sending money to other nations.

  7. Amen RumTumTugger amen'd this post.
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    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    I should have warned in the OP that this thread is not about Climate change, and whether or not it's real, and whether or not, if it is real, it's human caused....

    It's specifically about the GND.



    and bacon
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    You're right, I'm sure the next ice age is just around the corner.
    Vague references to old ideas that where almost immediately shown to be unsupportable do not help your case MM.

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    I should have warned in the OP that this thread is not about Climate change, and whether or not it's real, and whether or not, if it is real, it's human caused....

    It's specifically about the GND.



    and bacon
    Ill give it my best, but how is that to be avoided since the entire subtext of the GND is that climate change is real, ongoing, and a threat to civilization?

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    The Green New Deal was never about climate change; it's just AOC's excuse to destroy America's economy

    In Europe, you will often hear politically savvy people refer to Green Party politicians as "watermelons." The reason is that although they might be environmentalist "green" on the outside, these leftists are secretly communist red if you look beneath the surface.

    They typically resort to such subterfuge because environmentalism is more popular than Marxism. A former East German communist is bound to be unpopular, but perhaps not so much if he rehabilitates himself as a renewable energy enthusiast.

    The case of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat from New York, is different in that she openly advertised herself as a socialist in a country with a well-grounded historical aversion to such alien ideologies. But her grand policy initiative, the $93 trillion Green New Deal, was still billed as if it were a legitimate environmentalist idea. We were supposedly trying to save the world from imminent destruction. As Ocasio-Cortez herself put it, "We're, like, the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

    She would have us think, then, that this is a conversation about science. We need the Green New Deal, or else humanity is doomed. But now we know a lot more about this proposal, and it appears that that isn't what the Green New Deal is about at all.

    Her chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti (the brains and the money behind her political operation ever since her 2018 primary victory) divulged in an unintentionally blunt comment in the Washington Post that the Green New Deal was not only not based in the science of climate change, but in fact not even designed with climate change in mind. "[I]t wasn’t originally a climate thing at all,” he is quoted as saying.

    In other words, it's not that they looked for a way to save the world, and just happened to find a way that involved full employment pledges, the retrofitting of millions of buildings, income for those unwilling to work, high-speed passenger rail, and the curtailment of plane travel and carnivorousness. That's precisely backwards. The Green New Deal came about because Chakrabarti wanted to transform the U.S. economy into something more primitive, and environmentalism struck him as the best excuse for doing so.

    Think of the Green New Deal as an updated (and we hope less lethal) version of the "Year Zero" concept. Americans will be reassigned under a new socialist order to environmentally friendly tasks. The saving of the planet is not the goal of the Green New Deal but rather the excuse for it: the common purpose around which we all unite to pursue the deindustrialized, Utopian America of tomorrow.

    And we need that Utopian socialist society because ... wait, why exactly? Because of the despotic cruelty of our tsar and the grinding poverty of his recently enslaved subjects? Because none of the peasants own any land in our impoverished feudal society?

    .....
    So to your op, without getting into my own thoughts about what was said above, what you have quoted is an out of context misrepresentation of the comments your article is based on. To get a better context, you need to look at the actual WP article:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a98b05b2add7

    And to complcate matters, the difference between your article and the WP article is subtle.

    What is actually being said is that the GND is an integration of a large set of progressive ideals, of which adressing climate change is one.

    So the distortion is the implication that climate change itself is manufactured or blown out of proportion for the sake of advancing a broader political agenda. That is not the case. Rather it is that climate change as a serious and real issue is integrated with a number of other serious issues from a progressive perspective to produce the GND.

    Why is that difference important?

    Because it allows us to separate the elements of the GND that we may be against fiscally or politically from whether climate change is real or whether there are legitimate reasons to support mechanisms that address climate change while being against other elements of the GND that exist to promote progressive and socialistic leanings.

    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-13-2019 at 09:27 PM.
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

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