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Democrats' Far-Left Lean Risks More Than the Presidency

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    go argue with Bernie Sanders, he openly claims he is a socialist.
    Don't forget that the former chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), Debbie Wasserman Schultz, was unable to provide any sort of answer when asked what the difference is between the Democrat Party and Socialism on not just one, but two separate occasions. Shortly thereafter Hillary Clinton was also asked and could not offer any answer as well.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
      Orson Welles was once brought before a hearing on being accused of unamerican activities, due to his associations with left-leaning theaters. So he cheekily asked them to define "Socialism" and was told.

      "Well... Socialism is when the government takes your money and gives it to other people."
      "In that case I am 37% socialist, the rest of me is capitalist."

      I'll see if I can get a link to the interview where he said it.
      Right, but socialism is not paying for a service like roads, police, fire, military, etc... I'll check out the link later.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
        The Independent has Trump winning easily in 2020.
        If the election were held today.... would anybody complain?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Don't forget that the former chair of the Democratic National Committee (DNC), Debbie Wasserman Schultz, was unable to provide any sort of answer when asked what the difference is between the Democrat Party and Socialism on not just one, but two separate occasions. Shortly thereafter Hillary Clinton was also asked and could not offer any answer as well.
          I don't see why that particularly matters. "Socialism" has so many different possible definitions that I couldn't tell you the difference between capitalism and socialism unless you were very specific as to what you meant by "socialism."

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            I don't see why that particularly matters. "Socialism" has so many different possible definitions that I couldn't tell you the difference between capitalism and socialism unless you were very specific as to what you meant by "socialism."

            Well, I am sure if you asked Carpedm, he would come up with some weird definition and say, well Socialism is just being social, and unless you are a hermit we are all social, so everyone is a socialist!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              Found it seer!

              Love Welles. True genius. It's at the 7 minute mark if anyone is interested. And he wasn't asked if he was a Socialist, he was asked if he was a Communist. He claims to have replied,

              "Will you define what a Communist is."

              "Well,...It's where whatever you make goes to government"

              "Well I'm 86% Communist, the rest is Capitalist
              (that's the income tax rest pays the rent)."



              Off topic, but, while McCarthyism obviously was, you know, insane, it wasn't the witch hunt it's made out to be. Hollywood truly was filled with writers, actors, and directors who were fully committed Communists who were pushing communism as subtext in film with the intent purpose of swaying national policy and allegiance at a time when there was good reason for governments to be concerned about Revolutionary sentiment. How the government went about things was obviously all wrong, but there was more than a little to it.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                Off topic, but, while McCarthyism obviously was, you know, insane, it wasn't the witch hunt it's made out to be. Hollywood truly was filled with writers, actors, and directors who were fully committed Communists who were pushing communism as subtext in film with the intent purpose of swaying national policy and allegiance at a time when there was good reason for governments to be concerned about Revolutionary sentiment. How the government went about things was obviously all wrong, but there was more than a little to it.
                Of course. Do you expect Hollywood to portray McCarthyism correctly? Pretty much everything we "know" about it is what Hollywood portrays on TV and film. They control the narrative.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Of course. Do you expect Hollywood to portray McCarthyism correctly? Pretty much everything we "know" about it is what Hollywood portrays on TV and film. They control the narrative.
                  Yeah, unfortunately so. One of my favorite podcasts, You Must Remember This, eventually pushed that narrative when they covered the McCarthy era. The host, Karina Longworth, a film critic (in a long time relationship with director Rian Johnson), is predictably a far-left, LA, progressive type, and was tripping all over herself trying to underplay how rampant the actual issue in Hollywood was. Got annoying fast. I just want objective history, I don't care if ends up supporting anyone's agenda as long as it's the plain truth, but nah. I had made up my mind to stop listening to it because she kept going on these apologetic rabbit trails, but then she ended it because she didn't have enough time to run it. Real shame because on non-political stuff it was really great work and fun to listen to.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Of course. Do you expect Hollywood to portray McCarthyism correctly? Pretty much everything we "know" about it is what Hollywood portrays on TV and film. They control the narrative.
                    There was a TV movie back in the 1980s that had McCarthy heading up the House Un-American Activities Committee. McCarthy was a Senator.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      Democrats' Far-Left Lean Risks More Than the Presidency

                      Not at all friendly to Trump, some interesting points about the left, and a warning of "dire consequences"...

                      If the Democratic Party keeps surging to the left and nominates a 2020 candidate who can be credibly labeled “socialist,” “radical” or just far out of mainstream, it will not only reelect Donald Trump, but unleash a cascade of nightmares on itself and the nation.

                      Unpopular as he is, President Trump likely would win narrowly, but whatever the margin, he will feel vindicated and unleashed. To do what? For sure, to continue treating unwanted immigrants with systematic cruelty, claiming to help the working middle class while further enriching the wealthy, offending foreign allies while coddling dictators, dividing the nation and demeaning political discourse.

                      Other dire scenarios await if the party keeps heading left, responding to its liberal base and the pressure of TV debates. One possible outcome is that Democrats will lose what slim chance they have of retaking the Senate. Then Trump will be able to nominate and confirm probably at least one more and possibly two more conservative Supreme Court justices, plus lower court justices and executive branch officials who’ll carry out his will.

                      It gets worse. Democrats recaptured the House in 2018 because 40 moderates took seats Republicans won in 2016. If the party is deemed far-left in 2020, Democrats could lose control of the House and Trump could once again operate without any serious congressional oversight.

                      No one seems to realize the danger more than Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who has been resisting liberal pressure to begin impeachment proceedings that would inflame Trump’s base.

                      And she has been trying to tame the most left-wing elements of her caucus, the four-member so-called “Squad” led by first-term socialist Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who has been lionized by the media and is being used by Trump to brand the entire Democratic Party as radical.

                      Pelosi clearly is motivated by her past experience as speaker from 2007 to 2011, when she acted as a “San Francisco liberal,” epitomized by her forcing Obamacare through the House on a party-line vote. As a result, Democrats lost 63 seats in 2010 and she lost her speakership.

                      Besides Trump unleashed, chances of winning the Senate lost, a more conservative Supreme Court and loss of the House majority, a fifth potential nightmare scenario for Democrats is another decade of GOP domination at the state level......



                      Because the liberals keep boasting about the takeover of the House, I thought this was part was especially interesting....

                      Democrats recaptured the House in 2018 because 40 moderates took seats Republicans won in 2016. If the party is deemed far-left in 2020, Democrats could lose control of the House and Trump could once again operate without any serious congressional oversight.
                      That assumes that the "Left/Right" paradigm still neatly applies the way it did 30 or 40 years ago. Now I think it's more an "Inside/Outside" paradigm. I agree thast if a self-described socialist such as Sanders is the nominee, he'll probably lose because his message will be lost in the blitz of red-baiting. We need a pro-capitalist nominee who is anti-cronyism and pro-fairness. When Warren is asked if she is a capitalist, she answers unhesititatingly, "Yes, but I believe in rules. Capitalism without rules is theft!" Bullock also looks good.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Off topic, but, while McCarthyism obviously was, you know, insane, it wasn't the witch hunt it's made out to be. Hollywood truly was filled with writers, actors, and directors who were fully committed Communists who were pushing communism as subtext in film with the intent purpose of swaying national policy and allegiance at a time when there was good reason for governments to be concerned about Revolutionary sentiment. How the government went about things was obviously all wrong, but there was more than a little to it.
                        Can you mention a case where you think the House of Un-American Activities were justified in what they did? Or is it more that you feel that there were quite a few screen writers who put their ideas into scripts with a hope to influence the US?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          Can you mention a case where you think the House of Un-American Activities were justified in what they did? Or is it more that you feel that there were quite a few screen writers who put their ideas into scripts with a hope to influence the US?
                          No, which is why I stated, "How the government went about things was obviously all wrong." I think they were justified in exposing the issue to the American public in general, but in the long run I think how they went about that was often harsh, unfair, and illegal.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            The Independent has Trump winning easily in 2020.
                            Yes, win again most likely, keep winning bigly on big issues!
                            Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                              No, which is why I stated, "How the government went about things was obviously all wrong." I think they were justified in exposing the issue to the American public in general, but in the long run I think how they went about that was often harsh, unfair, and illegal.
                              Thanks for the response, that makes perfect sense.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Well, I am sure if you asked Carpedm, he would come up with some weird definition and say, well Socialism is just being social, and unless you are a hermit we are all social, so everyone is a socialist!
                                We live in a capitalist/socialist system right now so trying to put people in either one category or the other is meaningless. The problem is that there is tension between the strict capitalist side of the divide and the socialist side. Capitalists don't want any government interference or regulations, whereas socialist, or democratic socialists believe in capitalism that is regulated by government.

                                Comment

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