Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 29

Thread: Well, It'll Change Something

  1. #11
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,977
    Amen (Given)
    279
    Amen (Received)
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
    More and more electricity is coming from renewable sources, wind and solar. It's not free, but it does not use coal or gas once constructed.

    But it does seem a bit silly to ban the use of natural gas for cooking. Burning wood or pellets certainly is far worse on a pollution front. As for heat, California - Berkely - doesn't really need a high energy source for heat. The temperature ranges there are ideal for heat pumps which have gotten very efficient. Average lows are above freezing throughout the winter. I've never cooked on anything but electric, but I understand gas is preferred for restaurants and that seems where it gets crazy to ban it as the actual emissions there are not going to be very high all things considered.

    Overall, I think the real issue is not so much the natural gas itself but the methane and pollutants released in processes like Fracking. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, and offsets the significantly lower CO2 emmissions of gas than those associated with coal and oil. The be better than coal or oil, the methane emissions associated with its extraction have to be kept very low (<3%)

    https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/...of-natural-gas

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  2. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  3. #12
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,977
    Amen (Given)
    279
    Amen (Received)
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Zara View Post
    Before you shoot the source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...our-state.html

    As Leonhard noted, as long as its not primarily from coal, then electric vehicles are more efficient. More likely than not, energy production for a state, is not primarily from coal.

    You like polluting the air other people breath with your gas guzzler?
    Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  4. #13
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Faith
    Unspecified
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    198
    Amen (Given)
    0
    Amen (Received)
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


    Jim
    At the moment, sure, however the total cost of ownership for electric vehicles is expected to fall significantly below petrol ones by 2025 (likely even earlier), meanwhile they have far fewer moving parts so can last longer and have less maintenance, the do not create localised air pollution, while their range is set to increase significantly. And regenerative breaking, that's good technology right there.

  5. #14
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Denmark - Jutland
    Faith
    Catholic
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,389
    Amen (Given)
    955
    Amen (Received)
    2876
    Quote Originally Posted by oxmixmudd View Post
    Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


    Jim
    If they're plugin hybrids, and you recharge them at home? Sure. Otherwise they're worse than diesel cars.

  6. #15
    Department Head
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    3,946
    Amen (Given)
    18034
    Amen (Received)
    1447
    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Berkeley California bans natural gas in new construction.

    Seriously, is California actively trying to drive people out? Me personally, I prefer electric - I'm weird and I know it. (I'm also slow and disabled so there are advantages...). Home owners will just be annoyed - and try to find something that is grandfathered in if it matters that much. But restaurants won't have that luxury - when was the last time you saw an electric range on a restaurant show? Yeah, never.

    Does California - which is hemorrhaging people - even have enough new construction for this to matter to the atmosphere? I can't imagine Berkeley does. But hey, as long as we have our environmentally destructive smart phones, right?

    This is Berkley we are talking about same city that now has a law that you can't refer to manhole covers as manhole covers I think it is something like maintenance tunnel covers they are to be refered to as. you can't refer to fraternities or sororities you have to refer to them as part of the Greek system etc...

  7. #16
    Department Head
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    3,946
    Amen (Given)
    18034
    Amen (Received)
    1447
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    As for the OP this law seems stupid.
    see my previous post that's not the stupidest law Berkley has enacted.

  8. #17
    tWebber
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Maryland
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,977
    Amen (Given)
    279
    Amen (Received)
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    If they're plugin hybrids, and you recharge them at home? Sure. Otherwise they're worse than diesel cars.
    In what way?

    Jim
    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

  9. #18
    radical strawberry
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Humanist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,928
    Amen (Given)
    419
    Amen (Received)
    914
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    It's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.
    (Five minutes googling and half an hour writing it up later ...)

    This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.

    postpowershare.jpg

    The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.

    There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

    Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.

    The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.

    outlet-graph-large.jpg

    What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.

    Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:

    [Redacted for clarity]

    Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:

    Per 1000 residents:

    8.64 EVs - California
    5.12 EVs - Hawaii
    4.06 EVs - Washington
    3.84 EVs - Oregon
    3.73 EVs - Vermont
    2.33 EVs - Colorado
    2.29 EVs - Arizona
    2.03 EVs - Maryland

    Looking at electricity generation in CA:

    chart.jpg

    So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.

  10. #19
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Southeastern U.S. of A.
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    50,975
    Amen (Given)
    1082
    Amen (Received)
    18543
    Quote Originally Posted by Juvenal View Post
    (Five minutes googling and half an hour writing it up later ...)

    This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.

    postpowershare.jpg

    The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.

    There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.

    Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.

    The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.

    outlet-graph-large.jpg

    What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.

    Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:

    [Redacted for clarity]

    Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:

    Per 1000 residents:

    8.64 EVs - California
    5.12 EVs - Hawaii
    4.06 EVs - Washington
    3.84 EVs - Oregon
    3.73 EVs - Vermont
    2.33 EVs - Colorado
    2.29 EVs - Arizona
    2.03 EVs - Maryland

    Looking at electricity generation in CA:

    chart.jpg

    So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.
    Glad to see that things have changed.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" -- starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)

  11. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  12. #20
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    The Republic of Texas
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    53,734
    Amen (Given)
    11697
    Amen (Received)
    24952
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
    Natural gas can generate electricity!
    Every problem is the result of a previous solution.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •