Originally posted by Leonhard
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostIf they're plugin hybrids, and you recharge them at home? Sure. Otherwise they're worse than diesel cars.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIt's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.
This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.
postpowershare.jpg
The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.
There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.
Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.
The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.
outlet-graph-large.jpg
What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.
Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:
[Redacted for clarity]
Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:
Per 1000 residents:
8.64 EVs - California
5.12 EVs - Hawaii
4.06 EVs - Washington
3.84 EVs - Oregon
3.73 EVs - Vermont
2.33 EVs - Colorado
2.29 EVs - Arizona
2.03 EVs - Maryland
Looking at electricity generation in CA:
chart.jpg
So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View Post(Five minutes googling and half an hour writing it up later ...)
This was true in 2001, assuming a random distribution of electric vehicle owners and non-coal power plants, but things have changed.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38469[/ATTACH]
The Post (Updated March 28, 2017) had electricity from natural gas at 34/30 over coal, using 2016 preliminaries.
There are 1,793 natural gas-powered electricity plants in the United States. They generated 34 percent of the nation's electricity last year. [...] There are 400 coal-powered electric plants in the United States. They generated 30 percent of the nation's electricity last year.
Because of fracking, the game is over for coal based on raw economics, even before we look at external costs from excess CO2 generation. As fracking has made natural gas plants cheaper, they've been replacing coal plants. Natural gas plants are now well ahead on electric power generation.
The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) has them at 35/27 for 2018.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38471[/ATTACH]
What about EVs, and especially EVs in California.
Looking at Electric Vehicle distribution:
[Redacted for clarity]
Average number of plug-in cars in U.S. is 2.21 per 1,000 residents. In total, eight states exceed 2 plug-in cars per 1,000 residents, compared to five a year earlier:
Per 1000 residents:
8.64 EVs - California
5.12 EVs - Hawaii
4.06 EVs - Washington
3.84 EVs - Oregon
3.73 EVs - Vermont
2.33 EVs - Colorado
2.29 EVs - Arizona
2.03 EVs - Maryland
Looking at electricity generation in CA:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38470[/ATTACH]
So here's what I'm seeing. Coal has joined the choir invisible in CA, with natural gas running behind hydro running behind non-hydro renewables. And if you see a random pic of an EV on a U.S. road, it could be from lots of places, but your best bet is California, with a sucker side bet that it's not powered from coal.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by RumTumTugger View PostThis is Berkley we are talking about same city that now has a law that you can't refer to manhole covers as manhole covers I think it is something like maintenance tunnel covers they are to be refered to as. you can't refer to fraternities or sororities you have to refer to them as part of the Greek system etc...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostGlad to see that things have changed.
When the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona shuts down later this year, it will be one of the largest carbon emitters to ever close in American history.
The giant coal plant on Arizona’s high desert emitted almost 135 million metric tons of carbon dioxide between 2010 and 2017, according to an E&E News review of federal figures.
Its average annual emissions over that period are roughly equivalent to what 3.3 million passenger cars would pump into the atmosphere in a single year. Of all the coal plants to be retired in the United States in recent years, none has emitted more.
The Navajo Generating Station isn’t alone. It’s among a new wave of super-polluters headed for the scrap heap. Bruce Mansfield, a massive coal plant in Pennsylvania, emitted nearly 123 million tons between 2010 and 2017. It, too, will be retired by year’s end (Energywire, Aug. 12).
And in western Kentucky, the Paradise plant emitted some 102 million tons of carbon over that period. The Tennessee Valley Authority closed two of Paradise’s three units in 2017. It will close the last one next year (Greenwire, Feb. 14).
navajocoal.jpg
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostAnd Now, the Really Big Coal Plants Begin to Close
When the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona shuts down later this year, it will be one of the largest carbon emitters to ever close in American history.
The giant coal plant on Arizona’s high desert emitted almost 135 million metric tons of carbon dioxide between 2010 and 2017, according to an E&E News review of federal figures.
Its average annual emissions over that period are roughly equivalent to what 3.3 million passenger cars would pump into the atmosphere in a single year. Of all the coal plants to be retired in the United States in recent years, none has emitted more.
The Navajo Generating Station isn’t alone. It’s among a new wave of super-polluters headed for the scrap heap. Bruce Mansfield, a massive coal plant in Pennsylvania, emitted nearly 123 million tons between 2010 and 2017. It, too, will be retired by year’s end (Energywire, Aug. 12).
And in western Kentucky, the Paradise plant emitted some 102 million tons of carbon over that period. The Tennessee Valley Authority closed two of Paradise’s three units in 2017. It will close the last one next year (Greenwire, Feb. 14).
[ATTACH=CONFIG]39123[/ATTACH]
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Originally posted by Faber View PostThey're no longer manholes! They're maintenance access holes.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat are they replacing it with?
Changing demand – and supply
Demand for power in Tennessee dropped nearly 6 percent during the 2007-2009 Great Recession, and – driven by continued “sluggish demand” from industry – is still 5 percent below its 2007 peak. Residential demand is up only 0.2 percent over the same period. Meanwhile fuel prices, driven by the fracking boom, have made natural gas competitive with coal plants.
The report says future demand is hard to predict, but it’s unlikely to grow for at least a few years.
TVA CEO Johnson said in August he expects decline in power use to be a permanent trend, driven by greater efficiency. That means TVA’s biggest and oldest generating facilities will be excess capacity, even as they grow more expensive to keep running. For the next 20 years the trend is toward smaller-scale and more flexible power sources, including solar and wind, Johnson said.
“Coal and nuclear generators, the traditional sources of base load, are retiring and being replaced by renewable and natural gas generating capacity,” the report said.
I'd imagine it's the same story in AZ and PA.
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