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Well, It'll Change Something

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  • Well, It'll Change Something

    Berkeley California bans natural gas in new construction.

    Seriously, is California actively trying to drive people out? Me personally, I prefer electric - I'm weird and I know it. (I'm also slow and disabled so there are advantages...). Home owners will just be annoyed - and try to find something that is grandfathered in if it matters that much. But restaurants won't have that luxury - when was the last time you saw an electric range on a restaurant show? Yeah, never.

    Does California - which is hemorrhaging people - even have enough new construction for this to matter to the atmosphere? I can't imagine Berkeley does. But hey, as long as we have our environmentally destructive smart phones, right?

    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

    My Personal Blog

    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

    Quill Sword

  • #2
    I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
      Hamsters, lots and lots of hamsters running on little wheels.
      "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
      GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
        It's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          It's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.
          Though its a hard calculation at any rate because depending on when the coal power plant is built its efficiency rating can be as high as 40%, compared to the 12% efficiency of a petrol engine. Then when you consider that coal pollutes more than petrol that swings the balance in the negative direction again, as well as the power losses from transmission and conversion.

          And you have to factor in the production of the battery.

          In a pure coal powered nation it means that the electric car is either on par, or slightly worse than a diesel car. Though in countries with a greener energy mix (with more nuclear power, gas, or solar and wind) the electric car is favorable to drive in.

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          • #6
            As for the OP this law seems stupid.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              Berkeley California bans natural gas in new construction.

              Seriously, is California actively trying to drive people out? Me personally, I prefer electric - I'm weird and I know it. (I'm also slow and disabled so there are advantages...). Home owners will just be annoyed - and try to find something that is grandfathered in if it matters that much. But restaurants won't have that luxury - when was the last time you saw an electric range on a restaurant show? Yeah, never.

              Does California - which is hemorrhaging people - even have enough new construction for this to matter to the atmosphere? I can't imagine Berkeley does. But hey, as long as we have our environmentally destructive smart phones, right?

              The insanity of the left never ceases to amaze...
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                Though its a hard calculation at any rate because depending on when the coal power plant is built its efficiency rating can be as high as 40%, compared to the 12% efficiency of a petrol engine. Then when you consider that coal pollutes more than petrol that swings the balance in the negative direction again, as well as the power losses from transmission and conversion.

                And you have to factor in the production of the battery.

                In a pure coal powered nation it means that the electric car is either on par, or slightly worse than a diesel car. Though in countries with a greener energy mix (with more nuclear power, gas, or solar and wind) the electric car is favorable to drive in.
                To be fair, over time, diesels lose efficiency. Er, what I don't know is how quickly that happens in electric cars. My used hybrid never got close to its original rating - but it was better than my Corolla had been.

                But the problem right now with electrics is they aren't competitive for anyone that has to drive a lot or long distances. And Tesla isn't helping anything with those low riding, easy to bust and expensive to replace wheels...
                "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                My Personal Blog

                My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                Quill Sword

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  Though its a hard calculation at any rate because depending on when the coal power plant is built its efficiency rating can be as high as 40%, compared to the 12% efficiency of a petrol engine. Then when you consider that coal pollutes more than petrol that swings the balance in the negative direction again, as well as the power losses from transmission and conversion.

                  And you have to factor in the production of the battery.

                  In a pure coal powered nation it means that the electric car is either on par, or slightly worse than a diesel car. Though in countries with a greener energy mix (with more nuclear power, gas, or solar and wind) the electric car is favorable to drive in.
                  The pollution thing is more difficult to decide than you make out. Coal creates nasty pollutants, however, so do petrol cars (particularly diesel). Localised air pollution from vehicles has been found to have a pretty negative health effect on people.

                  US states differ significantly in terms of energy mix - with quite a few not using coal at all or having limited coal in the mix. In many states therefore, electric cars are much more efficient than petrol cars in terms of emissions while also significantly reducing the harm from toxic pollutants (fine particles, ozone, etc) on city dwellers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    It's like some folks with electric cars. Little do they realize that the electricity that they use to charge their car more likely than not comes from a coal-powered power plant.
                    Before you shoot the source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...our-state.html

                    As Leonhard noted, as long as its not primarily from coal, then electric vehicles are more efficient. More likely than not, energy production for a state, is not primarily from coal.

                    You like polluting the air other people breath with your gas guzzler?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                      I'm still not entirely sure where they're expecting all the electricity to come from. The way some liberals talk, they almost treat it as free energy.
                      More and more electricity is coming from renewable sources, wind and solar. It's not free, but it does not use coal or gas once constructed.

                      But it does seem a bit silly to ban the use of natural gas for cooking. Burning wood or pellets certainly is far worse on a pollution front. As for heat, California - Berkely - doesn't really need a high energy source for heat. The temperature ranges there are ideal for heat pumps which have gotten very efficient. Average lows are above freezing throughout the winter. I've never cooked on anything but electric, but I understand gas is preferred for restaurants and that seems where it gets crazy to ban it as the actual emissions there are not going to be very high all things considered.

                      Overall, I think the real issue is not so much the natural gas itself but the methane and pollutants released in processes like Fracking. Methane is a much more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, and offsets the significantly lower CO2 emmissions of gas than those associated with coal and oil. The be better than coal or oil, the methane emissions associated with its extraction have to be kept very low (<3%)

                      https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-energy/...of-natural-gas

                      Jim
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zara View Post
                        Before you shoot the source: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...our-state.html

                        As Leonhard noted, as long as its not primarily from coal, then electric vehicles are more efficient. More likely than not, energy production for a state, is not primarily from coal.

                        You like polluting the air other people breath with your gas guzzler?
                        Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


                        Jim
                        My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                        If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                        This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


                          Jim
                          At the moment, sure, however the total cost of ownership for electric vehicles is expected to fall significantly below petrol ones by 2025 (likely even earlier), meanwhile they have far fewer moving parts so can last longer and have less maintenance, the do not create localised air pollution, while their range is set to increase significantly. And regenerative breaking, that's good technology right there.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            Hybrids offer a good compromise for now in that the range is there but gasoline consumption (and hence pollution and CO2 emission) are cut in half or more. Plus there is no additional load on the electric grid.


                            Jim
                            If they're plugin hybrids, and you recharge them at home? Sure. Otherwise they're worse than diesel cars.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                              Berkeley California bans natural gas in new construction.

                              Seriously, is California actively trying to drive people out? Me personally, I prefer electric - I'm weird and I know it. (I'm also slow and disabled so there are advantages...). Home owners will just be annoyed - and try to find something that is grandfathered in if it matters that much. But restaurants won't have that luxury - when was the last time you saw an electric range on a restaurant show? Yeah, never.

                              Does California - which is hemorrhaging people - even have enough new construction for this to matter to the atmosphere? I can't imagine Berkeley does. But hey, as long as we have our environmentally destructive smart phones, right?

                              This is Berkley we are talking about same city that now has a law that you can't refer to manhole covers as manhole covers I think it is something like maintenance tunnel covers they are to be refered to as. you can't refer to fraternities or sororities you have to refer to them as part of the Greek system etc...

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